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The Great Hour Building Conundrum

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The Great Hour Building Conundrum

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Old 15th May 2018, 12:59
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The Great Hour Building Conundrum

Hi All,

So PPL skills test is in sight as is starting ATPL, the question is now Hour Building!

Where, when, how many hours in each place etc ....

Arizona - Angel city flyers / Chandler
Florida - Pilots Paradise
San Diego - American aviation
South Africa - Stellenbosch Flying Club
Home club / Airfield - Barton

anyone with experience / advice or anything to chip in please feel free to contribute, looking for the best experience / most affordable options.

Tha ks is in advance!!
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Old 15th May 2018, 19:25
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Numerous outfits in Czechia, Hungary and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. You can hire a Tecnam Echo for an equivalent of £65 per hour wet at LKBE, or C150 or C152 for £75...85 at LKLT, LKJA, LKPM, LHKA just to name a few. Inexpensive lodging, too; some flying clubs have basic accommodations right at the airfield. If you are into tailwheel aircraft, there are options like Piper Cub, Zlin 126/226 etc.

Last edited by Ultranomad; 15th May 2018 at 19:38.
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Old 16th May 2018, 00:09
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And consider Canada.... reasonable prices, lots of space, and you can get a float rating if you like!
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Old 16th May 2018, 04:12
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+1

And there’s a bonus for doing a float rating in Canada. Unlike in the US, a Canadian float rating requires solo flying.
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Old 16th May 2018, 06:26
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Wherever you go, don't just buzz around the local area all the time. Set off on a long trip. My first big flight in the US after getting my licence was Florida to California and back in a C172, 5 weeks total. Much better experience!
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Old 16th May 2018, 07:23
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Originally Posted by Ultranomad View Post
Numerous outfits in Czechia, Hungary and elsewhere in Eastern Europe. You can hire a Tecnam Echo for an equivalent of £65 per hour wet at LKBE, or C150 or C152 for £75...85 at LKLT, LKJA, LKPM, LHKA just to name a few. Inexpensive lodging, too; some flying clubs have basic accommodations right at the airfield. If you are into tailwheel aircraft, there are options like Piper Cub, Zlin 126/226 etc.
Is an echo a valid time building aircraft?
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Old 16th May 2018, 08:33
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I assume you are going on to a CPL/IR? If so then you should get an ICAO IR during your hour building (IR you're paying for the aircraft anyway so you just pay the extra for an instructor) FAA is probably the cheapest and easiest.

Then spend 50 hours as PIC under IFR practicing NDB holds, procedural approaches and the odd ILS. You'll then be allowed to take your EASA IR with no minimums (normally it's 40 SIM and 15 multi) - just train to proficiency. That will also allow you to do the short 15 hour cpl course as well.
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Old 16th May 2018, 11:02
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Originally Posted by jamesgrainge View Post
Is an echo a valid time building aircraft?
Why not? It's a VLA, not a microlight.
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:20
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
And consider Canada.... reasonable prices, lots of space, and you can get a float rating if you like!
I have considered Canada however Iíve just been unable to find any schools / locations / prices ... any info would be greatly appreciated!

Float plane ant rating would be fun also
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:22
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Originally Posted by Katamarino View Post
Wherever you go, don't just buzz around the local area all the time. Set off on a long trip. My first big flight in the US after getting my licence was Florida to California and back in a C172, 5 weeks total. Much better experience!
This is exactly my plan, however the schools Iíve contacted and spoken with to a greater deal either donít allow passengers or the aircraft is only available / aloud to be taken away for 2 days and 3 nights. Where did you do yours if you donít mind me asking ?
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:23
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Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
I assume you are going on to a CPL/IR? If so then you should get an ICAO IR during your hour building (IR you're paying for the aircraft anyway so you just pay the extra for an instructor) FAA is probably the cheapest and easiest.

Then spend 50 hours as PIC under IFR practicing NDB holds, procedural approaches and the odd ILS. You'll then be allowed to take your EASA IR with no minimums (normally it's 40 SIM and 15 multi) - just train to proficiency. That will also allow you to do the short 15 hour cpl course as well.
I have looked into this but doesnít it end up becoming more expensive overall ?
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Old 16th May 2018, 13:06
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Originally Posted by Ultranomad View Post
Why not? It's a VLA, not a microlight.
It was purely the weight category and fuel that made me question. If it is valid then that's a cracking price.
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Old 16th May 2018, 13:11
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Renting, you do not want a big flight dchool in the US, you will not get take the airplane away for weeks on end.

Most airports will have smaller schools who also use airplanes from private owners, you would likely get one of those at a lower cost maybe a two or three hour daily minimum.

Make sure the insurance us good, buy renter insurance - remember to factor in the cost of hotel rooms if doing long distance flights or buy a tent and select airports carefully.

Hour building through renting is going to be very expensive - consider buying something cheap and cheerful and selling at the end, pikely to save you a lot.
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Old 16th May 2018, 15:13
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Originally Posted by ComeFlyWithB View Post


I have looked into this but doesnít it end up becoming more expensive overall ?
You could put it like that: about £-10,000 more expensive!

You should definitely do the maths yourself, but this is the cheapest way by FAR.
The most important thing to understand is what you need, what can be combined with what, and what order to do everything in. Plenty of people find themselves short of something down the line (usually night hours) and end up having to hour build twice..

The most expensive way is to hour build to 175, then do a CPL (200) hours THEN do a full IR (15 multi plus 40 sim reduced to 30 because of your CPL)
The next cheapest way is to do your IR first, and hour build to 185, finishing with a 15 hour CPL because of your IR (basically you replace 15 hours of hour building with your 15 hours multi, net saving 15 hours)
The CBIR is even cheaper, for two reasons: it's 10 hours fewer (45 vs 55)and you can do it all (or most of it) in an aircraft, which is much cheaper than the Sim. (The aircraft is free actually)
The downside to all of these options is that you have to fly 15 hours in a multi, that's where the expense lies. If only there was a way to avoid that... Well actually there are two: one is to convert a foreign IR the 'normal' way (10 hours SIM, 5 multi) - the other is to convert a foreign IR via the CBIR route which (as long as you have 50 hours IFR as PIC, again: free) requires no training, you can just take the test.
An FAA instrument rating might cost you £2000 (in instructor feed) but if (big IF) you are talented and spend your hour building wisely (you won't), at best your EASA IR is free, and at worst you save £2000 and break even anyway. Ok at worst you fail repeatedly and eventually die of old age...
When you take advice from an ATO, remember that they make money from you flying.

Last edited by rudestuff; 16th May 2018 at 16:24.
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Old 17th May 2018, 07:45
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Originally Posted by ComeFlyWithB View Post


This is exactly my plan, however the schools Iíve contacted and spoken with to a greater deal either donít allow passengers or the aircraft is only available / aloud to be taken away for 2 days and 3 nights. Where did you do yours if you donít mind me asking ?
For long trips I have used Palm Beach Flight Training in Florida, and also Channel Islands Aviation in California. Both have been very helpful. I would suggest just searching flight schools and starting to contact people; don't go for big pilot mill places, but independent locations with a bigger fleet are often good. For each of my trips I probably contacted 10+ locations before finding one that I could work with. It helps a lot if you can take an airplane that they don't get so much use out of such as an RG.
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Old 17th May 2018, 11:05
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I'd recommend hour building in the area where you will do your CPL training. Get to know the local airspace, frequencies, VRPs, airfields etc. Get some advice from your intended CPL school re structured hour building. Make best use of your time.
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Old 17th May 2018, 13:10
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I would advise saving some hours for the area where your going to do your CPL as well.

Do some nav ex's before you start.

As for where to do the rest?

Personally I would have a look at New Zealand Or somewhere else with out all the security nonsense and I would actually want to go. I haven't a clue what the prices are like in NZ though.
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Old 17th May 2018, 15:05
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I have looked briefly into New Zealand however bar... maybe 1 outfit everywhere is similar in price to Australia - Astronimical

i have thought about using Poland for a few just before starting the CPL with the school I intend to use actually, could be a good idea 🙂
Thats great, much appreciated. £75 an hour wet seems to be the price to beat, best in the us seems to be chandler ... pros and cons to all I imagine. Example being would most hours in South Africa with various runway types etc look good in a logbook when it comes to job hunting down the line . .. . Or is it just about getting them in to tick a box!
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:52
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Numbers...

Yes, it is about numbers...but not in the way you think. 10 hours challenging yourself in terms of environment/operation/climate etc are worth far more than 100 hours in the ĎLocal areaĒ.

Those that have ďspread their wingsĒ🤪 are generally far better situationally and operationally. Iíd recommend doing a bit in all of the OP but then youíll spend more money travelling between. Whilst cost is an issue it should not be the only consideration.
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