Aircraft coming towards you on base leg.
High Flying Bird
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Aircraft coming towards you on base leg.
You're flying base leg to land, and the tower tells you there is an aircraft heading towards you, 2 nm away, height unknown. Assuming you can't see it, what should you do?
Yes, this did happen to me a few weeks ago.
Yes, this did happen to me a few weeks ago.
PANIC? Join Date: Jun 2002
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Presuming it's on a direct reciprocal...
1. Turn right.
2. Look for it as you do so.
3. Wait for the tower to tell you it's gone past.
4. Get back into the circuit to land.
(I must get a busier job -- I'm wasting much too much time on this damned website.)
QDM
1. Turn right.
2. Look for it as you do so.
3. Wait for the tower to tell you it's gone past.
4. Get back into the circuit to land.
(I must get a busier job -- I'm wasting much too much time on this damned website.)
QDM
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Well, the first thing I'd do is flash my landing lights a few times in the hope that he'll see me first.....
Assuming he isn't in contact with the TWR then I'd probably make an early turn onto Final whilst informing ATC of my decision and proceed as normal whilst keeping a good lookout on the basis that it's better to be in a position to land and "below" oncoming traffic than in a possible conflicting situation.
What did you do?
Assuming he isn't in contact with the TWR then I'd probably make an early turn onto Final whilst informing ATC of my decision and proceed as normal whilst keeping a good lookout on the basis that it's better to be in a position to land and "below" oncoming traffic than in a possible conflicting situation.
What did you do?
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Well, the first thing I'd do is flash my landing lights a few times in the hope that he'll see me first.....
QDM
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Well it would depend....
If I was under ATC, I'd expect the controller to give avoiding action, but if he/she was indecisive, I'd keep a very sharp lookout and be prepared to see and avoid, including configuring the a/c for a quick evasion.
If it was an A/g or AFISO tower service I would be keeping a sharp look out and be prepared to make a sharp left or right accordingly.
Most likely the traffic is above the circuit, but there is no room for complacency.
I've had an aircraft climb up the glideslope towards me on a 2 mile final under ATC, who were not aware of it's presence! We saw it at about 3/4 mile and took avoiding action.
If I was under ATC, I'd expect the controller to give avoiding action, but if he/she was indecisive, I'd keep a very sharp lookout and be prepared to see and avoid, including configuring the a/c for a quick evasion.
If it was an A/g or AFISO tower service I would be keeping a sharp look out and be prepared to make a sharp left or right accordingly.
Most likely the traffic is above the circuit, but there is no room for complacency.
I've had an aircraft climb up the glideslope towards me on a 2 mile final under ATC, who were not aware of it's presence! We saw it at about 3/4 mile and took avoiding action.
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QDMQDMQDM . This is my standard response when I'm near other aricraft and if a Tornado anywhere near my I'd be too busy gawping at it to make any rational decision!
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Reply "Traffic copied, negative visual contact, looking" or words to that effect. If he's 2 miles away and moving at similar speed then you will probably have turned final before you meet him.
Continue the approach keeping a good lookout in all directions, remembering that there may be other traffic that even ATC doesn't know about. Turn final as normal, but bear in mind that this will put you at 90 degrees to the alleged traffic and thus make it harder to see. Turning away from the circuit may make matters worse if the other traffic has seen you and is assuming you will turn final, or if there is other traffic around. Don't forget the usual checks, and remember you're in landing config (ie nearer the stall & the ground) so flying the aircraft becomes even more crucial. If you feel your landing has been compromised, or just that your concentration isn't there, consider going around.
It is very disconcerting, a similar thing happened to me on my QXC. I was landing at Newcastle, having never been there before. I was given a right base join for the westerly runway, as I apporached from the North. As I was half way along base, I spotted traffic at the same height reciprocal heading. As it happened ATC knew about him, and he was on a left base, but I had missed that on the radio. Gave me an anxious few seconds though.
Continue the approach keeping a good lookout in all directions, remembering that there may be other traffic that even ATC doesn't know about. Turn final as normal, but bear in mind that this will put you at 90 degrees to the alleged traffic and thus make it harder to see. Turning away from the circuit may make matters worse if the other traffic has seen you and is assuming you will turn final, or if there is other traffic around. Don't forget the usual checks, and remember you're in landing config (ie nearer the stall & the ground) so flying the aircraft becomes even more crucial. If you feel your landing has been compromised, or just that your concentration isn't there, consider going around.
It is very disconcerting, a similar thing happened to me on my QXC. I was landing at Newcastle, having never been there before. I was given a right base join for the westerly runway, as I apporached from the North. As I was half way along base, I spotted traffic at the same height reciprocal heading. As it happened ATC knew about him, and he was on a left base, but I had missed that on the radio. Gave me an anxious few seconds though.
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Here's another .............................
You're flying into the circuit joining on base leg. Airfield info tells you there's traffic ahead on base, and traffic turning crosswind. You can't see the traffic ahead so look for the crosswind traffic and get a visual. You turn your attention back to the traffic ahead. You're at circuit height on the correct QFE and a little suprised you can't get a visual with the traffic ahead. You get a twitchy bum. You're approaching the point where you'd pull the power and start your descent. You pull yourself forward to get a better view and voila ........... The underside of another aircraft comencing a descent maybe 100ft above you.
What do you do ?
You're flying into the circuit joining on base leg. Airfield info tells you there's traffic ahead on base, and traffic turning crosswind. You can't see the traffic ahead so look for the crosswind traffic and get a visual. You turn your attention back to the traffic ahead. You're at circuit height on the correct QFE and a little suprised you can't get a visual with the traffic ahead. You get a twitchy bum. You're approaching the point where you'd pull the power and start your descent. You pull yourself forward to get a better view and voila ........... The underside of another aircraft comencing a descent maybe 100ft above you.
What do you do ?
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opposing traffic
I'll switch on ALL the lights, and keep them on.
If you're on base then you'd have about the best field of view anyway, being slightly nose down.
Could be above, outside the ATZ you'd hope. ?!
PS Non-magnetic bicycle clips are still obtainable.
TTH
If you're on base then you'd have about the best field of view anyway, being slightly nose down.
Could be above, outside the ATZ you'd hope. ?!
PS Non-magnetic bicycle clips are still obtainable.
TTH
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circuit conflicts
How about: going around the circuit at Luton, get clearance to finals while downwind. Chug along, turn base, when I hear the tower clear a corporate jet to line up on the reciprocal - he had just plain forgotten I was out there.
I called base with a gentle reminder that he had already cleared me to finals. Sounded a bit flustered when he told me to fly through to the dead side and go round the circuit again..
Another time I was cleared to line up at Goodwood with another aircraft on very short finals. The landing a/c was not on the radio (not the Goodwood frequency anyway
) , and the tower guy clearly wasn't looking out the window when he cleared me..
Not having a go at ATC here.
I called base with a gentle reminder that he had already cleared me to finals. Sounded a bit flustered when he told me to fly through to the dead side and go round the circuit again..
Another time I was cleared to line up at Goodwood with another aircraft on very short finals. The landing a/c was not on the radio (not the Goodwood frequency anyway
) , and the tower guy clearly wasn't looking out the window when he cleared me..Not having a go at ATC here.
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M42: not an uncommon event! a sound argument for not handing the 'captaincy' of the aircraft to somebody else. Especially if they happen to be sitting on the ground, or in another a/c at the time.
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I had someone come in on a 1 mile base above me, just as I was turning left base myself. Luckily I spotted him, and I turned right and extended my downwind.
This was during my checkride prep and my intsructor wasn't too pleased with the other guy...
Could have been nasty as I'm sure he wouldn't have seen me...
This was during my checkride prep and my intsructor wasn't too pleased with the other guy...
Could have been nasty as I'm sure he wouldn't have seen me...
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At Jandakot airport they operate parallell runways so on virtually all base legs you have aircraft heading towards you. Makes you aware of where to turn finals and also means you have no dead side.
On only my second solo I was on final with another guy on final ahead of me when he just seemed to put the brakes on. Confusing as hell for a student when you find yourself approaching the back of another plane knowing you should overtake to the right hoping like hell he isn't going to do a go around because you are just swinging left to go past him and go around. Fortunately the most testing time I've had so far.
On only my second solo I was on final with another guy on final ahead of me when he just seemed to put the brakes on. Confusing as hell for a student when you find yourself approaching the back of another plane knowing you should overtake to the right hoping like hell he isn't going to do a go around because you are just swinging left to go past him and go around. Fortunately the most testing time I've had so far.
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Another time I was cleared to line up at Goodwood with another aircraft on very short finals. The landing a/c was not on the radio (not the Goodwood frequency anyway ) , and the tower guy clearly wasn't looking out the window when he cleared me..
Not having a go at ATC here.
Not having a go at ATC here.
Goodwood is a FIS, so I think the "tower guy" was correct. He issues instructions up to the hold, but information after that - so you're the one who should be looking out of the window for aircraft on short final (as you were), not him.
I suspect he said "report lining up". As a FISO he cannot clear you to line up, although he can tell you to hold, and "report lining up" is what they do when they know traffic is on final (otherwise it's "take off your discretion, surface wind is..." - I cannot remember ever being told to "report lining up" when there is no traffic on final). When they tell you to "report lining up" they are saying that it's your call - if the other traffic is on 8-mile final then feel free to go. If you're not happy, then say "Holding, G-CD".
Last edited by Evo7; 24th Jul 2002 at 07:32.
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You boys want to try flying a fling wing at Blackpool. The circuit is deadside and some plank flyers coming down from the overhead deadside don't realise that that's our 'downwind' leg and in a reciprocal direction - number of times in training I could tell you what the other pilot had for breakfast by the stains on his shirt.....
Anyway. best advice I was given was, as soon as you start transmitting to the tower frequency, wap on the old landing light because the ATC usually look at the radio direction finder thingy and then start looking for you in that direction. A light will help.
If you want a really scary story - see if you can get VFRpilotPB to tell his 'how to split a tornado squadron up with a robbo' story....
Anyway. best advice I was given was, as soon as you start transmitting to the tower frequency, wap on the old landing light because the ATC usually look at the radio direction finder thingy and then start looking for you in that direction. A light will help.
If you want a really scary story - see if you can get VFRpilotPB to tell his 'how to split a tornado squadron up with a robbo' story....
Last edited by RotorHorn; 25th Jul 2002 at 08:15.
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On my last lesson I was on final when another aircraft turned left base. ATC asked the other aircraft if they could see us but the response was unsatisfactory so ATC told us to keep an eye out. My instructor was expecting to see the aircraft out of our left window but instead it apeared in our front window a little closer than we would have liked but still thankfully not close enough for us to take avoiding action.