Brexit pushing UK out of EASA
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From: Niort
Apart from the very successful British microlight industry, which has often delved into the light aircraft work. E.g. - TLAC or CFM . Nearly 400 Shadows is hardly trivial, nor is the several thousand aircaft built by P&M and its two predecessor companies: . The Bulldog was built as military but is now widespread in civilian use and been highly successful in both. The Slingsby Firefly was both civilian and military and seems to have done fairly well. The AMF Chevvron could have done better but wasn't an outright disaster.
And, as has already been said, the Islander.
And, as has already been said, the Islander.
Ask Angus about the Chevvron and you'll get nothing more than expletives regarding the people who buy light aircraft. As ever a nice design with real promise, no real ability to produce it in numbers and no real thought to do so. (and yes I own one and it is lovely but......)
If Airbus see a real opportunity to relocate production to France it will happen. The only reason production exists in the UK is due to the technology behind the wing design - offer the chaps and chapess's relocation to Toulouse or Paris and forget BAe and wing fabrication - there is plenty of fabrication spare space in France.
If you want to find a genuine aviation success story - most of them lie in the parts, components and rather less glamorous areas frequented by Dowty and the like - and the withdrawal of EASA certification will hit them very hard unless some stupid politicians stop playing politics and actually do some thinking.
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From: Unna, Germany
Actually, the success story of the past 30 years has been European collaboration, especially with Airbus. 50% by value of the A380 is British-built, principally the wings and the engines.
Presumably, Airbus will be looking elsewhere for these items post-Brexit. This will be a massive loss to the UK economy.
The other major industry that will go is UK car-building, a major export earner.
These 2 losses combined will wipe £billions off the UK economy, thank you very much.
TOO
Presumably, Airbus will be looking elsewhere for these items post-Brexit. This will be a massive loss to the UK economy.
The other major industry that will go is UK car-building, a major export earner.
These 2 losses combined will wipe £billions off the UK economy, thank you very much.
TOO
For those unaware, the workers at Audi Ingolstadt were earning sufficient such that they could afford to buy a TT. However when the production was moved to Gjör, the registrations shrank rapidly as the workers building the cars were no longer able to afford them. What I am saying is that UK is the world's 5th biggest economy. If the british economy suffers, then so too will Germany, so will France and Italy. After all, if millions of jobs vanish in UK, who will be able to afford German cars, french wine and italian - well, whatever they sell......??? The impact will hit Europe significantly because 20% of the German motoring exports come to the UK. If we are bankrupt, well, what will happen to Mercedes, BMW and co? Or do you believe that Turkey and Albania, for example, will take the share of German cars which Great Britain used to purchase?
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From: Ansião (PT)
"The very successful British microlight sector" does seem to be a thing of the past to me - I cannot remember any Brits design on the continent since the CFM Shadow. OTOH lots of C42's and Eurofoxen in the Isles.
On a sidenote, not directly related: Brussels is full of UK expats working as free-lance IT'ers, there must be a few thousands according to some. I see these people massively giving up UK nationality, most changing to the BE register but some to France and other continental countries. More losses for the Royal Treasury!
As for Islanders being manufactured in Romania: yes, but so were BAC 111's, and I even know of a Hungarian microlight builder who outsources production to Romania for even lower cost. And C42's are being produced in Ukraine. Race to the bottom, anyone?
On a sidenote, not directly related: Brussels is full of UK expats working as free-lance IT'ers, there must be a few thousands according to some. I see these people massively giving up UK nationality, most changing to the BE register but some to France and other continental countries. More losses for the Royal Treasury!
As for Islanders being manufactured in Romania: yes, but so were BAC 111's, and I even know of a Hungarian microlight builder who outsources production to Romania for even lower cost. And C42's are being produced in Ukraine. Race to the bottom, anyone?
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From: Not a million miles from EGTF
Ask Angus about the Chevvron and you'll get nothing more than expletives regarding the people who buy light aircraft. As ever a nice design with real promise, no real ability to produce it in numbers and no real thought to do so. (and yes I own one and it is lovely but......)
A nasty antisocial design that clutters up the circuit and should be put on a Guy Fawkes bonfire rather that let it commit aviation.
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From: UK
P&M Aviation still seem to be building and exporting flexwings, TLAC are doing okay, with British designs, into the British market at least - and Just Aircraft in the USA are doing reasonably well with variants.
But yes, the UK light aircraft design and build sector is tiny compared to what it once was. Personally I think that this has little to do with Brexit and/or EU membership, and everything to do with skills and aspirations. We stopped educating and training the sort of people who do that sort of innovation - the ambition became to have a safe job with a good pension in a big corporation.
Possibly the lack of big aerospace companies in, for example, the Czech Republic or the Ukraine, has been the main reason for their success in light GA manufacturing?
If we go to Germany, I would say that their success is in large part down to the Akafliegs, which have provided visibility and training in that direction, that has died out in the UK. So a small but healthy proportion of young engineers there have taken their careers in that direction. They illustrate that you can have both, but only if you have the right cultural structures. Britain gets the "big corporate" / "heavy metal" side pretty well, but not the small company / innovation / new product side that the Germans and Czechs do much better.
But I really don't think that this has anything to do with the EU.
G
But yes, the UK light aircraft design and build sector is tiny compared to what it once was. Personally I think that this has little to do with Brexit and/or EU membership, and everything to do with skills and aspirations. We stopped educating and training the sort of people who do that sort of innovation - the ambition became to have a safe job with a good pension in a big corporation.
Possibly the lack of big aerospace companies in, for example, the Czech Republic or the Ukraine, has been the main reason for their success in light GA manufacturing?
If we go to Germany, I would say that their success is in large part down to the Akafliegs, which have provided visibility and training in that direction, that has died out in the UK. So a small but healthy proportion of young engineers there have taken their careers in that direction. They illustrate that you can have both, but only if you have the right cultural structures. Britain gets the "big corporate" / "heavy metal" side pretty well, but not the small company / innovation / new product side that the Germans and Czechs do much better.
But I really don't think that this has anything to do with the EU.
G
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Ansião (PT)
that clutters up the circuit
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 18th June 2018 at 01:04.
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: UK
I'm bemused by the comments on here re a successful UK GA manufacturing industry before we entered the EEC/EU. Dementia with rose coloured glasses seems to be prevalent!!
Beagle went bust with the Pup, their Airedale product was overweight and didn't sell, the 206 was very pretty but poorly built.
Britten Norman tried with the Nymph to challenge the 152/172 market .................. and failed
Lockspeiser LDA-1 was an interesting concept that nobody wanted
Cranfield A-1 could have been the Extra but it wasn't good enough
CMC Leopard personal jet........... never got past development stages
Trago Mills had the little SAH-1, but it didn't do anything.
ARV 2 showed promise then disappeared.
At the heavier end the BAe 125 was given away as there was no will power to develop a new version. Dassault had no problem and has the very successful Falcon range as a result.
The French have developed the TBM range in addition to the Robin range
The Swiss are coming on strong now with the PC-12 and PC-24
The semi successful Slingsby T-67 was originally a French design that Slingsby then stepped in and bought.
Where, apart from the excellent P&M designs, does the UK have any production facilities, design capability, willing investors?
Beagle went bust with the Pup, their Airedale product was overweight and didn't sell, the 206 was very pretty but poorly built.
Britten Norman tried with the Nymph to challenge the 152/172 market .................. and failed
Lockspeiser LDA-1 was an interesting concept that nobody wanted
Cranfield A-1 could have been the Extra but it wasn't good enough
CMC Leopard personal jet........... never got past development stages
Trago Mills had the little SAH-1, but it didn't do anything.
ARV 2 showed promise then disappeared.
At the heavier end the BAe 125 was given away as there was no will power to develop a new version. Dassault had no problem and has the very successful Falcon range as a result.
The French have developed the TBM range in addition to the Robin range
The Swiss are coming on strong now with the PC-12 and PC-24
The semi successful Slingsby T-67 was originally a French design that Slingsby then stepped in and bought.
Where, apart from the excellent P&M designs, does the UK have any production facilities, design capability, willing investors?
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From: Plumpton Green
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From: UK
If we're pointing out people building UK designed aeroplanes in the UK, also...
Kit Aircraft | Aeroplane Servicing | Online Homebuild Parts Shop | TLAC | Norfolk UK
G
Kit Aircraft | Aeroplane Servicing | Online Homebuild Parts Shop | TLAC | Norfolk UK
G
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: UK
If we're pointing out people building UK designed aeroplanes in the UK, also...
Kit Aircraft Aeroplane Servicing Online Homebuild Parts Shop TLAC Norfolk UK
G
Kit Aircraft Aeroplane Servicing Online Homebuild Parts Shop TLAC Norfolk UK
G
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From: MAN. UK.
Well to return to the subject of Brexit and EASA someone seems to have decided we need a negotiator to deal with it. This from another forums page:
Head of Airspace Strategy/Head of Aviation EU Exit Negotiations
Head of Airspace Strategy/Head of Aviation EU Exit Negotiations
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From: Ansião (PT)
A good idea, @abgd, but for some uncouth reason enterprising people seem to become rare in the UK - a surprising number of them popping up in Brussels and especially in its outskirts - a surprising part of them filing requests for citizenship in BE or other continental countries.