UKGA magazine classified adverts scam
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UKGA magazine classified adverts scam
Hello all.
Yup, just be done by a scammer on the Pilot mag classified advert (UKGA) website.
I thought I was wise to this stuff.
My tale of woe - saw an NR headset up for sale - messaged the guy - offered about half what a new one would cost and about the same as it would cost to replace my DC one.
Offered to pay on PayPal or a bank transfer - he went for the latter.
My big mistake was not looking up the sort code, had I done so and saw it was some offshore registered entity with no effective way to contact them directly I would have backed out.
So there's the tip - if anyone wants a transfer via a bank don't do it, if you feel you must check the sort code (databases are on line) ..............
The scammer uses the name, or did on this occasion, of Daniel Scofield - the whole exchange had the feel of someone who, in retrospect has done this before.
It also seems that UKGA does no checks whatsoever into their sellers - so basically don't use it - if you must, then meet the buyer in person - being overseas I could not, it was to be posted to friend who is coming over in a couple of weeks time.
Grrrrr
Yup, just be done by a scammer on the Pilot mag classified advert (UKGA) website.
I thought I was wise to this stuff.
My tale of woe - saw an NR headset up for sale - messaged the guy - offered about half what a new one would cost and about the same as it would cost to replace my DC one.
Offered to pay on PayPal or a bank transfer - he went for the latter.
My big mistake was not looking up the sort code, had I done so and saw it was some offshore registered entity with no effective way to contact them directly I would have backed out.
So there's the tip - if anyone wants a transfer via a bank don't do it, if you feel you must check the sort code (databases are on line) ..............
The scammer uses the name, or did on this occasion, of Daniel Scofield - the whole exchange had the feel of someone who, in retrospect has done this before.
It also seems that UKGA does no checks whatsoever into their sellers - so basically don't use it - if you must, then meet the buyer in person - being overseas I could not, it was to be posted to friend who is coming over in a couple of weeks time.
Grrrrr
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From 2018 I understand that when you set up a new payment, as well as being told the bank name when you enter up the details, I gather you will now be told the destination account name.
So if you are being scammed by A.N.Other to set up a payment and find that the account name is scammers-are-us that might be an indication that all is not as it might appear.
So if you are being scammed by A.N.Other to set up a payment and find that the account name is scammers-are-us that might be an indication that all is not as it might appear.
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Funnily enough i tried to buy a Bose headset off the same site and he said i could pay him half the money until i received the headset and rest after i was satisfied, yer right!!
I insisted on meeting and paying cash but there was always an excuse of why it wasn't possible, so needless to say the money stayed in my pocket until i dished out the right amount to Harry mendelssohn,
if it's seems to good to be true then its probably is!,
I insisted on meeting and paying cash but there was always an excuse of why it wasn't possible, so needless to say the money stayed in my pocket until i dished out the right amount to Harry mendelssohn,
if it's seems to good to be true then its probably is!,
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Probably the same guy Ivor.
I am usually very good with things like this checking people out but, just missed the point a little, I didn't even check the sort code, there were signs but I was distracted with other things.
What probably got me really was the Pilot connection of UKGA - rather shocked to discover that they make no checks at all of who posts on their site.
I have managed to track back the IP to California - again it never dawned on me to check the header in his email.
I also think this came off a rather good deal I did with guys in Canada - Collins/STEC com sets one unused (tags, holograms the whole thing), one looked like it had never been installed (both 25 years old) both for less than 40% of what they cost in 1990 - the deal of a lifetime - so maybe my guard was down.
Never ever ever again will I buy from UKGA unless I meet the seller in person and get to check out the stuff, from what I am learning it seems these scams are very common on there. So you may think someone is selling some small item for a few hundred pounds rather than a thousand - a lot of effort for a four hundred quid scam - but of course he "sells" it dozens of times.
The bank he used a dodgy looking offshore money transfer joint, no phone number and no direct email - how the hell they get banking sort codes I have no idea.
I am usually very good with things like this checking people out but, just missed the point a little, I didn't even check the sort code, there were signs but I was distracted with other things.
What probably got me really was the Pilot connection of UKGA - rather shocked to discover that they make no checks at all of who posts on their site.
I have managed to track back the IP to California - again it never dawned on me to check the header in his email.
I also think this came off a rather good deal I did with guys in Canada - Collins/STEC com sets one unused (tags, holograms the whole thing), one looked like it had never been installed (both 25 years old) both for less than 40% of what they cost in 1990 - the deal of a lifetime - so maybe my guard was down.
Never ever ever again will I buy from UKGA unless I meet the seller in person and get to check out the stuff, from what I am learning it seems these scams are very common on there. So you may think someone is selling some small item for a few hundred pounds rather than a thousand - a lot of effort for a four hundred quid scam - but of course he "sells" it dozens of times.
The bank he used a dodgy looking offshore money transfer joint, no phone number and no direct email - how the hell they get banking sort codes I have no idea.
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Bose X all you need is a name, sort code and an account number.
This is why he used a dodgy offshore 'bank' registered in Germany.
Multiple jurisdictions - me in Barbados, transaction in UK, I have traced his IP to California - UKGA have not responded to my query, neither have the dodgy bank.
DSC810 - not sure what you are getting at - the details Daniel Scofield, 23-63-07; 00847875 - that's all you need - I do transfer all the time and with strangers I 'always' check but this time I just got distracted. What one does need are more details with international transfers but I made a UK transfer from my UK account to the offshore one in GBP, had it been US$ say I may have needed more.
This is why he used a dodgy offshore 'bank' registered in Germany.
Multiple jurisdictions - me in Barbados, transaction in UK, I have traced his IP to California - UKGA have not responded to my query, neither have the dodgy bank.
DSC810 - not sure what you are getting at - the details Daniel Scofield, 23-63-07; 00847875 - that's all you need - I do transfer all the time and with strangers I 'always' check but this time I just got distracted. What one does need are more details with international transfers but I made a UK transfer from my UK account to the offshore one in GBP, had it been US$ say I may have needed more.
Alway pay with a credit card.
Section 75 of the Consumer Credit act is your friend if the purchase is over £100.
source https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...ing-goes-wrong
In the case above I would imagine Pilot Magazine/Archant/UKGA have some moral if not legal responsibilities..
Section 75 of the Consumer Credit act is your friend if the purchase is over £100.
Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act, your credit card company is jointly liable if something goes wrong with a product or a service you've paid for by credit card.
You can potentially claim for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the company from which you’ve bought your goods.
This means your credit card company shares equal responsibility with the retailer or trader for the goods or service supplied, allowing you to put your claim to the credit card company.
You don't have to reach stalemate with the retailer or trader before you can contact your credit card provider - you can make a claim to both the retailer and credit card provider simultaneously.
Section 75 is particularly useful if the retailer or trader has gone bust, or you're getting no response to your letters or phone calls.
You can potentially claim for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the company from which you’ve bought your goods.
This means your credit card company shares equal responsibility with the retailer or trader for the goods or service supplied, allowing you to put your claim to the credit card company.
You don't have to reach stalemate with the retailer or trader before you can contact your credit card provider - you can make a claim to both the retailer and credit card provider simultaneously.
Section 75 is particularly useful if the retailer or trader has gone bust, or you're getting no response to your letters or phone calls.
In the case above I would imagine Pilot Magazine/Archant/UKGA have some moral if not legal responsibilities..
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Perhaps a little mean to single out UKGA.
Any and all of the aircraft bulletin boars are vulnerable to these scammers. If you try and sell your unwanted stuff how many hoops are you prepared to jump through before your ad is posted? That is the extent of the checking these sits undertake. Do you want to have to prove your financial worthiness and trustworthiness before you can post your ad?
Obviously not and that is the crux of things. I've had a really interesting set of exchanges with a chap supposedly selling a 912S lots of photos ad documents and then a couple of metadata items which did not add up. On my hesitation the near instant offer of 50% payment. That prompted more digging and a mismatch between bank location, IP and metadata. End result I found at least three other ads for the 'same engine' and over half a dozen for Garmin 430s all linked.
If you cannot pick it up - forget it!
Any and all of the aircraft bulletin boars are vulnerable to these scammers. If you try and sell your unwanted stuff how many hoops are you prepared to jump through before your ad is posted? That is the extent of the checking these sits undertake. Do you want to have to prove your financial worthiness and trustworthiness before you can post your ad?
Obviously not and that is the crux of things. I've had a really interesting set of exchanges with a chap supposedly selling a 912S lots of photos ad documents and then a couple of metadata items which did not add up. On my hesitation the near instant offer of 50% payment. That prompted more digging and a mismatch between bank location, IP and metadata. End result I found at least three other ads for the 'same engine' and over half a dozen for Garmin 430s all linked.
If you cannot pick it up - forget it!
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I know Alex at afors.com and he has really worked hard to stop scammers.
He can't look at all the adverts every day, but he tries to keep an eye out for "bargain" high value stuff, like engines, GPS and headsets.
He has now brought in a thing where new advertisers have to pay a tenner to register, so they have to have some sort of card and be willing to make a payment. He then has a postcard sent out to their address with a code they have to enter to prove some postal connection. Not perfect, but at least an effort. And some of the tenner is going to fund a scholarship here at Strathaven.
I know Alex also keeps tables of things like browsers, IP addresses and other stuff - it is amazing what info you can gather from people's activity - and this, apparently, can often help identify people trying new identities.
If you have suspicions, drop him a quick email. He appreciates it.
Ironically, a big operation like Pilot doesn't seem to be doing this - I suppose it costs time and time is money.
But ultimately, buyer beware.
And talk to people about where it comes from, what the aircraft reg is, check on G-INFO, say your are sending a "pal" round to collect (before then agreeing to post)
And use s75 whenever you can.
He can't look at all the adverts every day, but he tries to keep an eye out for "bargain" high value stuff, like engines, GPS and headsets.
He has now brought in a thing where new advertisers have to pay a tenner to register, so they have to have some sort of card and be willing to make a payment. He then has a postcard sent out to their address with a code they have to enter to prove some postal connection. Not perfect, but at least an effort. And some of the tenner is going to fund a scholarship here at Strathaven.
I know Alex also keeps tables of things like browsers, IP addresses and other stuff - it is amazing what info you can gather from people's activity - and this, apparently, can often help identify people trying new identities.
If you have suspicions, drop him a quick email. He appreciates it.
Ironically, a big operation like Pilot doesn't seem to be doing this - I suppose it costs time and time is money.
But ultimately, buyer beware.
And talk to people about where it comes from, what the aircraft reg is, check on G-INFO, say your are sending a "pal" round to collect (before then agreeing to post)
And use s75 whenever you can.
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What I was getting at is the following
(This is in the UK)
Up to now you entered up the account No, the sort code and the name into your online banking to set up a new payment.
The names are not checked due to the number of possibly variations.
The online screen currently just responds saying this is destination is an account at XXX bank and goes on to some additional security measures you have to pass (text, sms auto phone call etc) before the payment is set up.
Post 2018 what you will get back real time on the screen is
This destination account to which you are setting up an online payment is in the name of...... for example Mr & Mrs JP Jones at Natwest Bank.
So you have another chance to make sure the end destination is really the person you want to pay.
Up to now in the UK you could never know 100% if the sort code number you were given were really correct as you had no way of verifying at the time that the destination account was the right one.
This resulted in the misdirected payment scam where scammers sought to convince people (via false letters and emails) that they should for example pay a solicitor with a new account/sort code details - which in fact was actually theirs in their name.
Some people had becomes accustomed to making £1 test payment and then contacting the end user by phone to confirm it had come though before making the XXX thousand pound one as a way of getting round this verification issue.
I've spoken to a person whose professional office email account was hacked and indeed clients were being sent messages telling them to in future send any payments to this new account number - all of which was totally false.
Anyone who queried the strange message would get the hackers who had hacked the email to respond by another email confirming it was all OK and correct.
I've no idea how much money was lost/diverted to the hackers account
How was it spotted?
Well the email tone, grammer and mode of conversation did not read true to a couple of clients who knew the alleged sender well and thought that something was up - though they suspected an internal inside job impersonating the sender rather than an external hacker inside the company email system.
So they got on the phone to contacts within the company, and the hack was discovered.
Trying to pay with a card is going to be pretty pointless with an individual as a seller as only businesses are going to be registered with the banks giving them the capability to accept card payments.
(This is in the UK)
Up to now you entered up the account No, the sort code and the name into your online banking to set up a new payment.
The names are not checked due to the number of possibly variations.
The online screen currently just responds saying this is destination is an account at XXX bank and goes on to some additional security measures you have to pass (text, sms auto phone call etc) before the payment is set up.
Post 2018 what you will get back real time on the screen is
This destination account to which you are setting up an online payment is in the name of...... for example Mr & Mrs JP Jones at Natwest Bank.
So you have another chance to make sure the end destination is really the person you want to pay.
Up to now in the UK you could never know 100% if the sort code number you were given were really correct as you had no way of verifying at the time that the destination account was the right one.
This resulted in the misdirected payment scam where scammers sought to convince people (via false letters and emails) that they should for example pay a solicitor with a new account/sort code details - which in fact was actually theirs in their name.
Some people had becomes accustomed to making £1 test payment and then contacting the end user by phone to confirm it had come though before making the XXX thousand pound one as a way of getting round this verification issue.
I've spoken to a person whose professional office email account was hacked and indeed clients were being sent messages telling them to in future send any payments to this new account number - all of which was totally false.
Anyone who queried the strange message would get the hackers who had hacked the email to respond by another email confirming it was all OK and correct.
I've no idea how much money was lost/diverted to the hackers account
How was it spotted?
Well the email tone, grammer and mode of conversation did not read true to a couple of clients who knew the alleged sender well and thought that something was up - though they suspected an internal inside job impersonating the sender rather than an external hacker inside the company email system.
So they got on the phone to contacts within the company, and the hack was discovered.
Trying to pay with a card is going to be pretty pointless with an individual as a seller as only businesses are going to be registered with the banks giving them the capability to accept card payments.
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I am aware of the credit card thing, I have benefited from it on an non airplane item using one of my UK cards.
On this occasion a private seller will not have credit card receiving facilities, if he did then maybe he would have scammed my card details - one cant win.This was the first time I've ever done this and not checked the details, with time differences and a looming appointment I did not check. There are sort code databases, so one can find out the bank and then check before the transfer - just didnt on this occasion.
With how common scams have become I do think it is an obligation of the publisher to make some level of check - it seems UKGA make none at all.
On this occasion a private seller will not have credit card receiving facilities, if he did then maybe he would have scammed my card details - one cant win.This was the first time I've ever done this and not checked the details, with time differences and a looming appointment I did not check. There are sort code databases, so one can find out the bank and then check before the transfer - just didnt on this occasion.
With how common scams have become I do think it is an obligation of the publisher to make some level of check - it seems UKGA make none at all.
You admit yourself that you'd have caught this if you'd bothered to do the checks yourself. Not sure it's reasonable to expect UKGA to do it for you. Apart from afors I can't think of any site that does this. Paying by bank transfer to someone you don't know should be sending up huge red flags! I've bought off of message boards like this a number of times with no problems, and these boards don't do any checks at all.
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With PayPal private sellers can setup an account and receive money on it. Even by e-mail. And most often this service will be free to use too. Money received will simply be added to the credit card or debit card that you associated with your PayPal account.
Anybody selling stuff on the internet, and at the same time claiming not being able to even setup a PayPal account to receive the money, should be flagged as dodgy straight away.
if he did then maybe he would have scammed my card details
Not sure it's reasonable to expect UKGA to do it for you.
Even if UKGA would have the will and the manpower to do anything about dodgy advertising, they will not be able to check the advertisers credentials beforehand. That can only happen after the fact. And then the damage might already have been done.
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Hey op,
Nobody else seems to to want to say it, so allow me.
Thank you for putting your embarrassment to oneside and providing detailed material for all our benefit.
well played sir
Nobody else seems to to want to say it, so allow me.
Thank you for putting your embarrassment to oneside and providing detailed material for all our benefit.
well played sir
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I recently used Western Union to transfer US Dollars UK to America. As it wasn't a Kings Ransom and the guy was well known I thought I'd give it a try.
Worked a treat. Located a WU office in his local shopping mall he passes every day to work. Set up an account on line, paid in pounds enough to cover the purchase price plus a very reasonable fee, hit the button and copied him in on the transaction.
Following day I got an email from WU telling me who had collected the money at what time and an email from him thanking me for the quick payment. Goods arrived 5 days later using US Mail.
All in all a painless process.
I don't work for WU by the way. In fact I don't work!
Worked a treat. Located a WU office in his local shopping mall he passes every day to work. Set up an account on line, paid in pounds enough to cover the purchase price plus a very reasonable fee, hit the button and copied him in on the transaction.
Following day I got an email from WU telling me who had collected the money at what time and an email from him thanking me for the quick payment. Goods arrived 5 days later using US Mail.
All in all a painless process.
I don't work for WU by the way. In fact I don't work!
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I got scammed for the £6000 deposit on a car, and the reason I paid up was I was asked to transfer the money to an escrow account with Barclays bank in London.
Once I realised that it was a scam, the next day, I tried to get the bank to reverse it, but they refused, although they confirmed the money was sitting in the perp's account. I spoke to Barclays Fraud dept (I have a Barclays account as well.) but they weren't interested as I had made the payment voluntarily so they don't consider it fraud. Once I managed to get the police involved the account had been cleared out, and the police said the account was registered to a known squat address and the perp had long gone.
I then asked how it is possible for unknown persons to set up a Barclays bank account with a known dodgy address, when despite having been a bank customer with the same branch for over 25 years and knowing the manager personally, I had recently had to provide proof of ID and address due to the so-called anti fraud regulations.
I was then informed that if I wanted the police to take it further I would have to fork out £800 for the bank to do an internal investigation and release the details to the police, as the police were not prepared to pay this fee demanded by the bank.
So not wanting to throw good money after bad, I have completely changed my view of the banking system and police in this country, and now assume anyone trying to sell me anything sight unseen is a crook until I can prove otherwise.
Once I realised that it was a scam, the next day, I tried to get the bank to reverse it, but they refused, although they confirmed the money was sitting in the perp's account. I spoke to Barclays Fraud dept (I have a Barclays account as well.) but they weren't interested as I had made the payment voluntarily so they don't consider it fraud. Once I managed to get the police involved the account had been cleared out, and the police said the account was registered to a known squat address and the perp had long gone.
I then asked how it is possible for unknown persons to set up a Barclays bank account with a known dodgy address, when despite having been a bank customer with the same branch for over 25 years and knowing the manager personally, I had recently had to provide proof of ID and address due to the so-called anti fraud regulations.
I was then informed that if I wanted the police to take it further I would have to fork out £800 for the bank to do an internal investigation and release the details to the police, as the police were not prepared to pay this fee demanded by the bank.
So not wanting to throw good money after bad, I have completely changed my view of the banking system and police in this country, and now assume anyone trying to sell me anything sight unseen is a crook until I can prove otherwise.
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Paypal is indeed a solution for individual to individual but remember if you use paypal for paying a company instead of using the credit card direct you loose s75 cover when you do so as s75 only applies to direct payments to the card company not those via paypal.
To be fair paypal does have its own problem resolution system.
See
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cr...yPal-Section75
To be fair paypal does have its own problem resolution system.
See
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cr...yPal-Section75
I have never forgotten a line I read as a kid in a comic by, I think Dennis the Menace, after he had scammed somebody 'folks sure are suckers for free gifts'
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eddieHeli
Alas it is a common story. A good friend of mine had his identity stolen a couple of years back. it didn't cost him any money; just a world of pain. He asked the bank for details of the fraudster and they told him the guy/girl was protected by the data protection act.
I've worked in this industry; the UK high street banks are frankly pretty disgusting in their approach to joe public, hopefully a lot of the new innovative banks coming to the industry will smash the main retail banks cosy cartel out of the park.
PS
A little known fact. If you raise a formal complaint against an FCA regulated company, it costs that company circa £550 in admin fees irrespective of the outcome. All companies get about 25 complaints free gratis per year, but as you can imagine yer average High St Retail Bank probably uses up its allocation of free complaints by about 0930 on 1st January. That is why if you walk into a branch and start kicking up a stink, they'll often offer you £25 - £50 "for your inconvenience". Much the same deal applies to your main gas/electricity companies. Assuming you have the time, like i do, there is much to be said for the Victor Meldrew approach...entertaining & profitable
Alas it is a common story. A good friend of mine had his identity stolen a couple of years back. it didn't cost him any money; just a world of pain. He asked the bank for details of the fraudster and they told him the guy/girl was protected by the data protection act.
I've worked in this industry; the UK high street banks are frankly pretty disgusting in their approach to joe public, hopefully a lot of the new innovative banks coming to the industry will smash the main retail banks cosy cartel out of the park.
PS
A little known fact. If you raise a formal complaint against an FCA regulated company, it costs that company circa £550 in admin fees irrespective of the outcome. All companies get about 25 complaints free gratis per year, but as you can imagine yer average High St Retail Bank probably uses up its allocation of free complaints by about 0930 on 1st January. That is why if you walk into a branch and start kicking up a stink, they'll often offer you £25 - £50 "for your inconvenience". Much the same deal applies to your main gas/electricity companies. Assuming you have the time, like i do, there is much to be said for the Victor Meldrew approach...entertaining & profitable
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Bose A20 Gumtree
Thank god I just saw this thread!
There's a new seller on Gumtree claiming to be RAF flight crew using the same name "Dan Schofield" trying to sell a pair of Bose A20's at a very cheap price, he's been giving me all sorts of reasons why I can't come and collect them tomorrow when I'm in his area, Redhill.
I offered to pay him through Paypal, he said he didn't have a PayPal account but would try and set one up. He came back to me and said he had set one up but Paypal won't let you withdraw funds from a new account for 28 days and he couldn't wait that long, I phoned Paypal to check this and they confirmed that you can withdraw straight away after setting up a new account.
Before I sent him money I thought I would ask him for a full name and address, which he has given me but after running his name through Google it came up with this thread.
The address he's given me doesn't strike me as the sort of place a retiring RAF Pilot would live. (Run down old council house with old car seats and all sorts of other rubbish on the lawn outside)
All seems very odd. I think i'll steer clear!
Hopefully he doesn't catch anyone in the same trap.
There's a new seller on Gumtree claiming to be RAF flight crew using the same name "Dan Schofield" trying to sell a pair of Bose A20's at a very cheap price, he's been giving me all sorts of reasons why I can't come and collect them tomorrow when I'm in his area, Redhill.
I offered to pay him through Paypal, he said he didn't have a PayPal account but would try and set one up. He came back to me and said he had set one up but Paypal won't let you withdraw funds from a new account for 28 days and he couldn't wait that long, I phoned Paypal to check this and they confirmed that you can withdraw straight away after setting up a new account.
Before I sent him money I thought I would ask him for a full name and address, which he has given me but after running his name through Google it came up with this thread.
The address he's given me doesn't strike me as the sort of place a retiring RAF Pilot would live. (Run down old council house with old car seats and all sorts of other rubbish on the lawn outside)
All seems very odd. I think i'll steer clear!
Hopefully he doesn't catch anyone in the same trap.