VFR Navigation Tips
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: Euroland
VFR Navigation Tips
Hello,
Since getting my PPL I've been a big fan of flying VORs, NDBs, GPS etc. While I feel my nav skills are average for a low time PPL and adequate for navigation, but the sense of situational awareness given by the accuracy of instruments is far superior.
Does anyone have tips or "tricks" used to improve VFR navigation - anything appreciated?
VT
Since getting my PPL I've been a big fan of flying VORs, NDBs, GPS etc. While I feel my nav skills are average for a low time PPL and adequate for navigation, but the sense of situational awareness given by the accuracy of instruments is far superior.
Does anyone have tips or "tricks" used to improve VFR navigation - anything appreciated?
VT
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: England
I strongly agree with S & L. Using just the watch and compass is the best way to improve your basic nav. Other exercises are to estimate the 2000' wind from surface wind reports and use this to calculate drift and groundspeed for your intended track. This is a very valuable cockpit skill to acquire for planning and flying a diversion. There is an excellent booklet called "Diversion Planning" by Martyn Smith available from the usual mail-order pilot shops. It only has 15 pages but its the best of its kind and the subtitle says it all: "How to Navigate around the world using a stopwatch and a pencil".
QNH
QNH
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
Here I go again:
Making comments and getting in trouble.
Sooo here are my thoughts on this matter.
When I learned to fly we had to know morse code to get our instrument rating. I flew just to many years in the High Arctic using the Astro compass for celestial navagation and the rest of the time dead reckoning with some map reading in the areas that were actually mapped.
I now have morphed to the state that I use all the modern aids, you know like Loran, GPS to name two.
I do this becaues of two compelling reasons. They are far more accurate and far more reliable than old technology.
And it is safer navigating with the best equipment availiable.
When I started training in the A320 it never occured to me to ask them why there was no Astro compass in the thing.
Cat Driver
Making comments and getting in trouble.
Sooo here are my thoughts on this matter.
When I learned to fly we had to know morse code to get our instrument rating. I flew just to many years in the High Arctic using the Astro compass for celestial navagation and the rest of the time dead reckoning with some map reading in the areas that were actually mapped.
I now have morphed to the state that I use all the modern aids, you know like Loran, GPS to name two.
I do this becaues of two compelling reasons. They are far more accurate and far more reliable than old technology.
And it is safer navigating with the best equipment availiable.
When I started training in the A320 it never occured to me to ask them why there was no Astro compass in the thing.
Cat Driver
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
From: UK
Chuck,
The question was how to improve his VFR nav, not which system is best. If he goes back to basics he'll learn something as you and I did in the old days; drift sights, astro compasses, Gee, H2S, doppler, decca, loran etc.
I always carry a GPS, but seldom switch it on, its too much bother most of the time. Part of the joy of flying is that you don't need most of the gadgets the latter day PPL depends on. A little basic nav and the'll realise they don't need them either.
The question was how to improve his VFR nav, not which system is best. If he goes back to basics he'll learn something as you and I did in the old days; drift sights, astro compasses, Gee, H2S, doppler, decca, loran etc.
I always carry a GPS, but seldom switch it on, its too much bother most of the time. Part of the joy of flying is that you don't need most of the gadgets the latter day PPL depends on. A little basic nav and the'll realise they don't need them either.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,402
Likes: 858
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Personally I favour a line on a map, the view out of the window - and the same route backed up on GPS used to augment pre-planned visual features.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
Hey you guys:
I also use a map at all times when VFR. I am not inferring that anyone not map read and only rely on electronic nav aids when flying VFR.
And of course students must learn and understand the basics.
I was only pointing out one should not just blindly head out using nothing but dead reconing with no back up.
O.K. ??
Cat Driver:
I also use a map at all times when VFR. I am not inferring that anyone not map read and only rely on electronic nav aids when flying VFR.
And of course students must learn and understand the basics.
I was only pointing out one should not just blindly head out using nothing but dead reconing with no back up.
O.K. ??
Cat Driver:
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From: too near London
Chuck, are you really saying I would be irresponsible to jump in a nonradio classic aeroplane which has no electrical system anyway, and actually fly further than about two nm from the aerodrome? Or were you merely indicating that it might not be advisable if the flight in mind happened to be taking place in the "high arctic"?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
From: 75N 16E
Use GPS....
Here's one for the people who don't trust this 'new fangled' GPS.....
Did you hear about the bloke (or are you the bloke) who took off from Bournemouth en-route down SW? He had this nice funky magnetic sunglasses case, which he stuck somewhere on the dash board, and promptly added a 50° error to his compass which was noticed when he got a boll@cking from Bristol for infringing their class D........
Moral of that story is to use what ever nav aids you have got to back up your other nav system. If you fly VFR, there is no harm using VOR's , NDB's, GPS etc., but you need to know how to use them and know their limitations. These should be cross referenced on the chart if possible, and you should always know where you are. Anyone who doesn't make full use of their onboard nav gear is, in my opinion, not properly acting as PIC. The other thing is, what happens if you unexpectedly go into IMC or an area of bad vis? Ok, a VFR pilot shouldn't, but !!!!! happens, are you now about to add to your problems by not knowing exactly where you are?
So my tip is to practice using nav aids when flying VFR, and if in the future you decide to expand your skills (IMC or IR) then you will have already have an advantage...
Cheers
EA
Did you hear about the bloke (or are you the bloke
) who took off from Bournemouth en-route down SW? He had this nice funky magnetic sunglasses case, which he stuck somewhere on the dash board, and promptly added a 50° error to his compass which was noticed when he got a boll@cking from Bristol for infringing their class D........Moral of that story is to use what ever nav aids you have got to back up your other nav system. If you fly VFR, there is no harm using VOR's , NDB's, GPS etc., but you need to know how to use them and know their limitations. These should be cross referenced on the chart if possible, and you should always know where you are. Anyone who doesn't make full use of their onboard nav gear is, in my opinion, not properly acting as PIC. The other thing is, what happens if you unexpectedly go into IMC or an area of bad vis? Ok, a VFR pilot shouldn't, but !!!!! happens, are you now about to add to your problems by not knowing exactly where you are?
So my tip is to practice using nav aids when flying VFR, and if in the future you decide to expand your skills (IMC or IR) then you will have already have an advantage...
Cheers
EA
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
From: Dorset, UK
I found out the best way to improve my VFR navigation was - NECESSITY!
A few years ago, after I had got used to flying a twin, with a full set of airways navaids, & every bolt-on electronic gizmo, I decided to do a tail-dragger + basic aerobatics course.
This was in an aged Citabria. I fell in love with that aircraft, but was in basic! Only navaid was a wet magnetic compass & its only electrical item was one radio.
After my first few solo circuits, the instructor sent me off on solo cross-countries. As it was much easier to land the Citabria on grass, rather than tarmac, I headed off to various fields that I had not been to before. That's when I realised that I had to get back to the very basic navigation, that we should all have mastered. That is AFTER I got lost trying to find a small grass airfield, amongst all the other grass fields.
What it did teach me was the real value of reading & memorising the ground, & relating features to each other, as well as to the chart. The nearest I can think of is the sport of orienteering. The experience stood me in good stead, as I seem to have memorised large chunks of the South-East of the UK, from the air.
So, taking away all the navaids was what worked for me
A few years ago, after I had got used to flying a twin, with a full set of airways navaids, & every bolt-on electronic gizmo, I decided to do a tail-dragger + basic aerobatics course.
This was in an aged Citabria. I fell in love with that aircraft, but was in basic! Only navaid was a wet magnetic compass & its only electrical item was one radio.
After my first few solo circuits, the instructor sent me off on solo cross-countries. As it was much easier to land the Citabria on grass, rather than tarmac, I headed off to various fields that I had not been to before. That's when I realised that I had to get back to the very basic navigation, that we should all have mastered. That is AFTER I got lost trying to find a small grass airfield, amongst all the other grass fields.
What it did teach me was the real value of reading & memorising the ground, & relating features to each other, as well as to the chart. The nearest I can think of is the sport of orienteering. The experience stood me in good stead, as I seem to have memorised large chunks of the South-East of the UK, from the air.
So, taking away all the navaids was what worked for me
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
You improve VFR nav through practice. You don't need to do it all the time; 3km vis and being lost near controlled airspace are times when it really isn't a good idea. But sometimes it's great fun flying and being able to see the whole area below you looking just like it does on the map, and it will, with practice. It's a useful skill, it's a lot of fun, and it could stand you in good stead if you ever fly an aircraft without all the fancy stuff. Of course, it's not a great idea in darkest Africa or the High Arctic, but I think we're talking about Britain in summer here, aren't we? So of course radio nav is useful, so is GPS...but so is map and compass nav; where's the conflict?
PPruNaholic!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
From: Buckinghamshire
A different planning approach may be needed.
If you want to improve VFR navigation, plan a few trips differntly to how you might when you use VORs by picking turning points by how recognisable they should be, e.g. the "village at the railway / motorway junction just past the lake" sort of thing.
Hope this helps,
Andy
If you want to improve VFR navigation, plan a few trips differntly to how you might when you use VORs by picking turning points by how recognisable they should be, e.g. the "village at the railway / motorway junction just past the lake" sort of thing.
Hope this helps,
Andy
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: England
Someone asked what you do if you suddenly get lost because of bad visibility or (gosh - IMC). The answer is simple in most of the UK - you simply get QDM from a couple of equiped airfields. When done correctly this can take less than one minute! I'm assuming you can mentally calculate approximately where you are in the UK from the time and heading you have been flying. Even if you can only find one station to call, that will get you a line on the map. If that doesn't work, then call D & D on 121.5 and ask for autolocation, or ask for a "training fix" if you are embarassed.
I was expected to be able to demonstrate rapidly fixing my position by getting QDMs during my ppl training. Is this no longer part of the course? I think it is a valuable technique, as it only needs a radio, a pen and a map.
If you get lost and are near any controlled airspace, then the obvious thing to do is to speak to them, sooner rather than later. They can be very helpful and would rather you called them, rather than they call you (by telephone after you've landed).
I was expected to be able to demonstrate rapidly fixing my position by getting QDMs during my ppl training. Is this no longer part of the course? I think it is a valuable technique, as it only needs a radio, a pen and a map.
If you get lost and are near any controlled airspace, then the obvious thing to do is to speak to them, sooner rather than later. They can be very helpful and would rather you called them, rather than they call you (by telephone after you've landed).
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
Nonradio:
Englishall has explained basically what I meant, a couple posts down from yours.
I seem to have this habit of straying away from the exact precise issue and wander into other areas, hoping that that by using the lessons learned from experience it will help in supporting my opinions.
I also notice most of those who endeavour to correct my advice are from the same general area that you are from. I believe that you are close to North Weald? I will be there from July 28 to about Aug. 07 maybe you could drop by and both of us could watch some real local experts gallop their tailwheel Yacks and assorted playtoys all over the runway?
You know there is nothing like local experts showing us how well trained the Brits are.
I am not hard to find,, just ask around.
Cat Driver:
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Englishall has explained basically what I meant, a couple posts down from yours.
I seem to have this habit of straying away from the exact precise issue and wander into other areas, hoping that that by using the lessons learned from experience it will help in supporting my opinions.
I also notice most of those who endeavour to correct my advice are from the same general area that you are from. I believe that you are close to North Weald? I will be there from July 28 to about Aug. 07 maybe you could drop by and both of us could watch some real local experts gallop their tailwheel Yacks and assorted playtoys all over the runway?
You know there is nothing like local experts showing us how well trained the Brits are.
I am not hard to find,, just ask around.
Cat Driver:
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
Likes: 2
From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
If you're lost and call 121.5, better to tell them the truth. Otherwise one of these days you'll find they won't talk to you because they're dealing with a real emergency.
And why be embarrassed; that's what they're there for. So you're not perfect; did you really think you were?
And why be embarrassed; that's what they're there for. So you're not perfect; did you really think you were?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: England
Whirly, Agreed, its much better to tell the truth, but I would rather someone called and asked for a training fix rather than didn't call at all. People do all sorts of odd things and make all kinds of odd decisions under stress. I think that is why the terminology "training fix" was introduced a few years ago.
Further point on calling 121.5 when you don't have an emergency: Even when you have listened to the frequency for some minutes and it seems quiet, always make your first call short. During an actual emergency there is often sparce RT on 121.5, and you won't always know if they are handling an emergency until you call.
Remember what the RAF say: "You've never been lost until you've been lost at mach two"
Further point on calling 121.5 when you don't have an emergency: Even when you have listened to the frequency for some minutes and it seems quiet, always make your first call short. During an actual emergency there is often sparce RT on 121.5, and you won't always know if they are handling an emergency until you call.
Remember what the RAF say: "You've never been lost until you've been lost at mach two"
