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Non corrosion proofed cessna.

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Non corrosion proofed cessna.

Old 22nd Jul 2017, 07:48
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Non corrosion proofed cessna.

Long time listener, first time caller....

I've looked around the internet and can't find anything of note. How big an issue is the possibility of corrosion on a non corrosion proofed Cessna run in the uk? Am I mad in considering one? Ive seen Reims cessna and pipers all suffer corrosion so I know buying one primed at the factory doesn't guarantee I won't get problems.

Any real world insight here?

Many thanks.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 18:21
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Our F150H is 50 this year. So far the only corrosion has been external with a running fight against worm trails particularly on the skin to leading edge joint top and bottom of the wing. We had both main gear supports replaced due to corrosion (big job) quite a few years ago. I would put that down to the design and installation of the blade type undercarriage rather than a pure metal problem. Internally so far nothing at all.

I would hesitate to buy an older non Reims Cessna.

Last edited by ericferret; 23rd Jul 2017 at 10:59.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 19:12
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My understanding of 'corrosion proofing' on old US airframes is many destined for dry climates came off the line without Zinc Chromate being sprayed inside the fuselage.

I was told these airframes tended to rot from the inside out if taken to a damp climate.

I am not an engineer but am aware of how quickly aluminium can corrode in the UK without surface protection.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 19:40
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A well looked after non factory corrosion proofed aeroplane is worth considering, but make sure you get a independent pre-purchase inspection done by someone who knows what the are looking for. The secret to making them last is to fly them regularly and have the structure treated with ACF 50 every couple of years.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 19:43
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Worked with a non-corrosion proofed Cessna 152 years ago. The corrosion was a constant nightmare resulting in rivets being removed on the wings and fuselage to try to treat the rot in the lapped joints.
My advice is - forget it!
I am not saying that the factory proofing stops all corrosion, but without it you are on a 'hiding to nothing'.
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Old 22nd Jul 2017, 19:48
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Is the aluminium zinc chromated before construction of the airframe?

I guess the non corrosion proofed aircraft was cheaper to produce and sell?
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 03:04
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I guess the non corrosion proofed aircraft was cheaper to produce and sell
Back in the day corrosion proofing on the Cessna various was an optional extra. Probably only gone for by fastidious owners and those operating on floats. The non corrosion proofed 150 I learnt to fly on in '62 is still going gangbusters with no visible corrosion issues, and lived by the ocean for a time. No zinc chromating Jay. Aircraft had minimal exterior painting in the early days, plenty of nice shiny bare metal externally. This being rather typical.

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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 10:55
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I think that nobody at Cessna believed we would still be flying the cheap and cheerful Cessna 150, 60 years (Sept 12 this year) after the first flight. Why corrosion treat an aircraft that was viewed to a certain extent as disposable and incur the additional cost?

The Reims built aircraft were mainly destined for the European market with higher levels of industrial pollution, more likelyhood of operating in a maritime environment and in areas with generally poorer weather. Good reasons for internal treatment. If only they had sealed the external seams as well.

Earler I said I would hesitate to buy an older non Reims Cessna. I think that it would be more than hesitation. I would look at Reims aircraft first and only if I couldn't find what I wanted would I look elsewhere.

Last edited by ericferret; 23rd Jul 2017 at 11:07.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 13:23
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If you go to the AIR MOD - Excellence in Aircraft Renovation website, you will find many articles written by Dennis Wolter on aircraft corrosion. The articles he has written for the Cessna Pilot's Association should give you most of the information relevant to these aircraft.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 14:18
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Originally Posted by Philoctetes View Post
Worked with a non-corrosion proofed Cessna 152 years ago. The corrosion was a constant nightmare resulting in rivets being removed on the wings and fuselage to try to treat the rot in the lapped joints.
My advice is - forget it!
I am not saying that the factory proofing stops all corrosion, but without it you are on a 'hiding to nothing'.

152 years ago? That's pre-Wright brothers!
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 15:11
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Thanks for the replies. I'll give the articles a read! This buying an aircraft lark is trickier than first thought!
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 20:31
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Jay Sata

"Is the aluminium zinc chromated before construction of the airframe?"

Good question, I expect it was probably sprayed after. However our annual is due soon so I will look a little closer to see if I can tell.
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Old 23rd Jul 2017, 21:17
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In my experience, Reims-built aircraft were corrosion proofed at the substructure build stage. So for instance, once the forward fuselage was complete, out came the spray guns. I've seen bent Reims-built 152s where the lap joints are bare metal - hence why they still start to corrode at the skin edges and from under the lap joint.

The corrosion proofing was actually an optional extra as I understand it but most were supplied from Reims with that option.

The older aircraft (same goes for American built Cessnas and Pipers for that matter) tend to be built with a more corrosion defying metal (if that makes sense) than the later ones.

Don't over do the ACF50/Corrosion X treatment - it starts to lube the rivets. Once every few years should suffice.

If you're buying one, by a scruffy one in need of a paint job so you know what you're actually buying rather than seeing what someone has just painted over.....
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 11:54
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"If you're buying one, by a scruffy one in need of a paint job so you know what you're actually buying rather than seeing what someone has just painted over....."

Not a bad idea at all. Basically what I did although not intentionally.

I paint stripped the whole aircraft and treated all the surface corrosion myself. Got a professional painter to put on the finish.
Not for the faint hearted and I hope never to do that again. However doing the job right over 20 years ago has resulted in skins
that I thought would have to be replaced at some point continuing to serve today.

Anybody going down the "scruffy" route, needs to consider the cost of a respray (not cheap) repairs and engineering costs
e.g control surface balancing, certification.
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Old 24th Jul 2017, 20:59
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The Reims Cessna were not completely corrosion sealed and they were treated after certain built groups are already mounted, so it is not comparable to the restart Cessnas. A "non-corrosion Cessna" must have been an US version later imported, so crucial is - when was it transferred to the UK and how well was it maintained?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 07:21
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I've made my mind up, I'm going to hold out for a Reims aircraft. Thanks all for your advice.

Anyone selling an F182?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 17:32
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In the early eighties a UK flying school I frequented operated a number of Cessna 150, 152 and 172 aircraft.

The owner of the school took advice then from his engineers and they sprayed the inside of the fuselages, wings and tailplanes with an oil based substance similar to ACF50.

They never had corrosion problems and some of those aircraft are still flying today still based at their coastal aerodrome, the moral is, have a proper internal inspection, check the maintenance records of the aircraft you will find some good ones.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 10:26
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The key as others have said is a good survey by somebody who knows the aircraft type well. Not as easy to organise as it might sound.
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Old 28th Jul 2017, 22:16
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The major issue with corrosion proofing is that the key areas such as joints never had it.

The airframes were usually painted after assembly with zinc chromate.

For it to have really worked would have required zinc chromating all the panels and airframe components prior to assembly.

Cars in that era were built to last no more than a decade at best. Piper and Cessna aircraft are still flying after half a century. That is good going by any standard.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 12:09
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Contrary to what is being said here I was told that one could tell a Cessna that had origional corrosion proofing by looking inside the fuselage.

If the rivets were bare and the panels were green it was a factory job. If the rivets were green it was done afterwards.
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