What's the cheapest way to get a PPL?
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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What's the cheapest way to get a PPL?
Hello,
I live in Germany at the moment...What's the cheapest way to get a PPL? Is it possible to attend online classes for the theory?
Thank you
I live in Germany at the moment...What's the cheapest way to get a PPL? Is it possible to attend online classes for the theory?
Thank you
Join Date: Sep 2012
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Unfortunately, there is no "cheap" way. Just varying degrees of expensive. I would assume going to the US and doing it full time for 2 or 3 weeks at an EASA flying school would probably be the cheapest way.
Best to do the written exams in Germany before you go so you are only concentrating on the flying.
Best to do the written exams in Germany before you go so you are only concentrating on the flying.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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The cheapest way is to hand your credit card to your significant other and ensure they don't allow you to spend any money on flying. You will spend thousands learning, hundreds on getting the right kit, then thousands every year just maintaining a basic level of proficiency. There is no cheap way. Going to America is great, and on the face of it, the flying is cheaper and because of the weather, you'll get more done in a shorter space of time. However, then factor in cost of:
Accommodation
Food
Holiday away from work
Flights
Visa
Insurance
Club membership
etc etc etc
It works out a very similar cost to just do it in EASA land. Fly-In-Spain is good, and forum user Bose-X will be more than happy to talk you through it.
Accommodation
Food
Holiday away from work
Flights
Visa
Insurance
Club membership
etc etc etc
It works out a very similar cost to just do it in EASA land. Fly-In-Spain is good, and forum user Bose-X will be more than happy to talk you through it.
Join Date: Mar 2012
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first things first, check the terms and conditions. Too many clubs quote an unrealistic price for the PPL. Secondly, determine whether they are charging hobbs or flight time. Thirdly, choose your licence. Solely intent on flying SEP in VFR conditions in Europe - go for the LAPL. Light and skinny and don't mind taking max one person? Go for the UL. You can always add later.
Concerning theory, you can attend online courses but IIRC you need a certain amount of attendance in the classroom. Having said this, I know of a pilot who did their theory in english whilst on holiday in Spain but ended up doing their practical exams in Germany for reasons I won't go into here - having the results of the english theory exams accepted by the LBA wasn't a problem.
You should also be aware that there are specialised ground schools - Erlangen, I believe has one but they're not the only ones - where you can do all the exams within a fortnight - however please note that you only have 2 years once you pass your final theory in which to complete your licence otherwise the theory exam passes become invalid.
Concerning cheap - the best is to choose an instructor who 'works for you' - some instructors are instructing in order to build hours, others really enjoy teaching and are good at it. If you choose a club and feel your instructor isn't quite bringing it over to you, if you feel that you aren't learning something new with each lesson, ask to fly with another one, see if it works better. Human interactions can sometimes be difficult. You are also the paying customer so you should feel empowered to be able to state clearly that you believe you aren't benefiting from the tuition to it's fullest extent.
Also, try flying regularly - once a week for an hour plus briefing / debrief at a minimum. Any less than that and you will tend to forget what you previously learnt and have to review it.
If you let people know whereabouts you are based in Germany, maybe other forumites can give you recommendations which schools are good. I'm based in the Ruhr Valley and can give you recommendations from this area.....
The cheapest way is to pass in the minimum hours required. To do so you need good instructors. Doing it on a continuous course will be better than having long spells between lessons.
The difficulty of the written exams will depend greatly on your recent experience of exams.
A school where, if your instructor finds you have a problem he can't fix, he can pass you to another instructor, is an advantage.
(In 1964, my Instructor stopped a circuits lesson, to avoid wasting my time, and another Instructor sorted my landings later that morning.)
The difficulty of the written exams will depend greatly on your recent experience of exams.
A school where, if your instructor finds you have a problem he can't fix, he can pass you to another instructor, is an advantage.
(In 1964, my Instructor stopped a circuits lesson, to avoid wasting my time, and another Instructor sorted my landings later that morning.)
I guess I'd ask a slightly different question. Why do you want the cheapest possible PPL? One thing I can say for sure is that if you think learning to fly is expensive, wait until you actually start flying afterwards.
If you just want to get a PPL for the experience of it and so you can feel good about having achieved something substantial (and absolutely nothing wrong with that), then sure, do it the cheapest way you can, frame the certificate, and get on with the rest of your life.
But if you're doing it so you can fly afterwards too, then you need to think about the bigger picture, in particular how you are going to stay current and safe. That too will cost money. Flying a handful of times a year is not safe, unless you do it with an instructor every time.
If you just want to get a PPL for the experience of it and so you can feel good about having achieved something substantial (and absolutely nothing wrong with that), then sure, do it the cheapest way you can, frame the certificate, and get on with the rest of your life.
But if you're doing it so you can fly afterwards too, then you need to think about the bigger picture, in particular how you are going to stay current and safe. That too will cost money. Flying a handful of times a year is not safe, unless you do it with an instructor every time.
If your nearest flying school is less than a 10 minute bike ride away, then this would be your best option.
I once did 90 minutes Touch and Goes in the morning, went home and had lunch, then had a telephone call from my instructor saying there was another 90min slot in the afternoon if I would like to do some navigation exercises.... I got back to the airfield in less than 15 minutes..!
In Britain the number of flyable days is often limited by the weather, so any chance of a flight is a bonus. For our training purposes, visibility needs to be more than 5km, wind less than 10 kts and down the runway, and no possibility of rain or squalls. Also Cloud-base over 1800ft agl.
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I once did 90 minutes Touch and Goes in the morning, went home and had lunch, then had a telephone call from my instructor saying there was another 90min slot in the afternoon if I would like to do some navigation exercises.... I got back to the airfield in less than 15 minutes..!
In Britain the number of flyable days is often limited by the weather, so any chance of a flight is a bonus. For our training purposes, visibility needs to be more than 5km, wind less than 10 kts and down the runway, and no possibility of rain or squalls. Also Cloud-base over 1800ft agl.
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Last edited by scifi; 15th Jul 2017 at 19:25.
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Can't say I know of any Instructors that would deliberately fly students in a 15kt crosswind... But know of lots of lessons flown when the wind is 20+ kts straight down the runway.
Current Weather.... Just looking out of the window now... there is a brave crow climbing and going backwards, ( he dives to go forward.).
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Current Weather.... Just looking out of the window now... there is a brave crow climbing and going backwards, ( he dives to go forward.).
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You could work through a gliding school or fly microlights.
I have a friend who started on hang gliders but after we took him flying in a helicopter became a Hughes 500 commercial pilot.
The training is not cheap but commitment is the key word
I have a friend who started on hang gliders but after we took him flying in a helicopter became a Hughes 500 commercial pilot.
The training is not cheap but commitment is the key word
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If I had known what I know now. I would have gone to USA or Spain to do my PPL. I stuck at a flying school that seems to just add more training hours for no apparent reason and the good part is that you can either leave or stick it out. there is no 3rd way around it once you are majority of the way through your training. You can complain to CAA about the school but Caa have no time for these complaints. Weather can play a major part in consistency (as pointed in a comment above), so going to Spain or USA is a much much better option. Yes, there are costs for accommodation, food travel etc. but you will firstly get a license quicker and in a timely manner.
G
The cheapest way is to hand your credit card to your significant other and ensure they don't allow you to spend any money on flying. You will spend thousands learning, hundreds on getting the right kit, then thousands every year just maintaining a basic level of proficiency. There is no cheap way. Going to America is great, and on the face of it, the flying is cheaper and because of the weather, you'll get more done in a shorter space of time. However, then factor in cost of:
Accommodation
Food
Holiday away from work
Flights
Visa
Insurance
Club membership
etc etc etc
It works out a very similar cost to just do it in EASA land. Fly-In-Spain is good, and forum user Bose-X will be more than happy to talk you through it.
Accommodation
Food
Holiday away from work
Flights
Visa
Insurance
Club membership
etc etc etc
It works out a very similar cost to just do it in EASA land. Fly-In-Spain is good, and forum user Bose-X will be more than happy to talk you through it.
Flying cheaply is a holy grail quest- as has been said, it's varying degrees of expensive.
CG
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This is interesting! If I were to try and get a PPL at fly-in-spain do you know if this is a 5 day a week course or flexible or what? I have a base in Gibraltar so being in Jerez is not big deal (they have a zoo and a Primark so my partner will be happy)
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I earned my PPL for half-price, admittedly quite a while ago now. I started in 1999 and took 2.5 years. I cleaned aeroplanes at the club and was paid in flying time, and I did other duties around the airfield that were also paid in flying time. I completed in close to minimum hours and paid only half the amount that a full PPL would be at the time I finished.
I then bought a share in a permit aeroplane so the hourly cost was much lower than renting. I'm still flying now.
I then bought a share in a permit aeroplane so the hourly cost was much lower than renting. I'm still flying now.
My PPL course was free as it was part of the training for an ATCO back in the '70s. Only cost incurred was driving to and from the airfield every week as accomodation was also provided.
Last edited by chevvron; 26th Jul 2017 at 10:50.
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Why are Germans always trying to cheat on economics, what's it called now "Geiz ist Geil"?
You cannot defeat economics truth on long term! A decent aircraft for training in Germany will come at about 200 Euro per flight hour (beware of their bloody CAA fighting all flying) and they have a minimum wage of 8.84 Euro per labor hour. Given the German vulture factor between turnover and wage of 4.2 this comes to a fee of 37 Euro per hour for the instructor at minimum wage (only if you are brash ignoring the human economic life of your instructor), or 237 Euro for an hour of flight on FI supervision. At 45 hours flight training according to EASA syllabus you always end at 10.665 Euro - pure flying. Plus theory, plus material, plus radio license & LP & etceteras you have to expect 15.000 Euro.
If you don't have 15.000 Euro to spend for the license, you most probably will never be able to afford keeping your license. If you aim to become an experienced pilot, you probably need about 100 hours of flight per year to stay so - another 20.000 Euro per year to spend.
So, what is the amount of money thought to save with a "cheap" PPL? Being a noble airmen very seldom plays in the 4-digit Euro per year regime, so why bother taking the risk of spending money on "cheap" education"? Whatever you may be able to save on the license is peanuts compared to the money you will spend being an airmen.
*end of testing part*
If you want to save money, get a friend with an airplane.
You cannot defeat economics truth on long term! A decent aircraft for training in Germany will come at about 200 Euro per flight hour (beware of their bloody CAA fighting all flying) and they have a minimum wage of 8.84 Euro per labor hour. Given the German vulture factor between turnover and wage of 4.2 this comes to a fee of 37 Euro per hour for the instructor at minimum wage (only if you are brash ignoring the human economic life of your instructor), or 237 Euro for an hour of flight on FI supervision. At 45 hours flight training according to EASA syllabus you always end at 10.665 Euro - pure flying. Plus theory, plus material, plus radio license & LP & etceteras you have to expect 15.000 Euro.
If you don't have 15.000 Euro to spend for the license, you most probably will never be able to afford keeping your license. If you aim to become an experienced pilot, you probably need about 100 hours of flight per year to stay so - another 20.000 Euro per year to spend.
So, what is the amount of money thought to save with a "cheap" PPL? Being a noble airmen very seldom plays in the 4-digit Euro per year regime, so why bother taking the risk of spending money on "cheap" education"? Whatever you may be able to save on the license is peanuts compared to the money you will spend being an airmen.
*end of testing part*
If you want to save money, get a friend with an airplane.
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The cheapest way to get a PPL in the UK was (not sure if you still can) buy an LAA aircraft with a 1 year permit, find an instructor who will teach you full time - £15 an hour for the instructor + £20 an hour for fuel. Total £35 ph X 55 hours. At end of process sell shares in the aircraft making sufficient profit to cover what you spent on insurance and parking. I have seen this done!
Rod1
Rod1
Isn't this thread rather similar to the one entitiled 'How much did you PPL cost you?' (Original spelling mistake included)
Could they not be combined?
Could they not be combined?