Punctures, reportable?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Punctures, reportable?
Punctures and reporting.
Here's an odd question.
This weekend I went on a trip - on returning to Barbados from Tortola I was planning to refuel in Martinique, but weather closed it even to IFR, so diverted to Guadeloupe on landing - maybe my best ever, long, long hold off of the nose wheel (someone was watching over me), as soon as it touched - wucker, wucker, wucker - I shut the plane down 20% of the way down the airport - yep a nose wheel puncture.
Got it repaired this morning - the cause small metal fragments INSIDE the tyre between the tyre and inner tube - seems they moved around and made scratches in the surface of the inner tube and slow puncture.
I shut it down so quick that there was no damage to the wheel spat (nor the tyre) - the fire service had to retrieve the airplane from the runway - being a Sunday and French Mother's Day - no engineers - it got promptly fixed this morning and we flew home to Barbados.
Now here is the question - it is a US registered airplane - no "damage" it is something I have to report to the NTSB or anyone else (we had the Gendarmes at TFFR) - probably will anyway as it seems that the metal fragments were picked up when the tube, tyre and wheel were assembled - has a new nose wheel and tyre installed about 40 hours prior to the puncture.
I have a very nice GPS track with speeds etc. of the events, seems the fire service got their tow vehicle up to 40mph +
Here's an odd question.
This weekend I went on a trip - on returning to Barbados from Tortola I was planning to refuel in Martinique, but weather closed it even to IFR, so diverted to Guadeloupe on landing - maybe my best ever, long, long hold off of the nose wheel (someone was watching over me), as soon as it touched - wucker, wucker, wucker - I shut the plane down 20% of the way down the airport - yep a nose wheel puncture.
Got it repaired this morning - the cause small metal fragments INSIDE the tyre between the tyre and inner tube - seems they moved around and made scratches in the surface of the inner tube and slow puncture.
I shut it down so quick that there was no damage to the wheel spat (nor the tyre) - the fire service had to retrieve the airplane from the runway - being a Sunday and French Mother's Day - no engineers - it got promptly fixed this morning and we flew home to Barbados.
Now here is the question - it is a US registered airplane - no "damage" it is something I have to report to the NTSB or anyone else (we had the Gendarmes at TFFR) - probably will anyway as it seems that the metal fragments were picked up when the tube, tyre and wheel were assembled - has a new nose wheel and tyre installed about 40 hours prior to the puncture.
I have a very nice GPS track with speeds etc. of the events, seems the fire service got their tow vehicle up to 40mph +
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't speak for any authority, but no, they are not interested in a puncture. You can look up the definition of a reportable incident, and it's not even that. If you feel that there is an unknown safety concern, by all means, report that, but in this case, I don't think that's the case. This is a wear and tear issue, where a consumable was consumed.
Metal inside a tyre is not wear and tear, sounds more like poor maintenance. However the
FAA are not likely to be interested. Sounds like somebody assembled the wheel on a dirty bench.
FAA are not likely to be interested. Sounds like somebody assembled the wheel on a dirty bench.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ericferret - I agree with you, thinking it stuck to the soap stuff they lube the tubes with when installing them - wonder if he'll be happy to front up the $600 the shenanigans cost me - I doubt it.
I have contacted just about everyone I can think of and agree it is not an "incident" so no NTSB.
I did park up just past the numbers on an international airport - that was the thing that bothered me a more than a little.
I have contacted just about everyone I can think of and agree it is not an "incident" so no NTSB.
I did park up just past the numbers on an international airport - that was the thing that bothered me a more than a little.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plumpton Green
Age: 79
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you feel there has been an identifiable maintenance failing, you can file a service difficulty report. Yes, if there was contamination between the tube and tire, something was missed. If a maintainer allowed foreign material in there while reassembling the wheel, they would be wise to at least reimburse you for that work.
A few years back we sorted out a Cessna 172RG after a UK maintenance company left a role of masking tape in a fuel tank. The whole fuel system was contaminated with glue.
We sent all the components back to the maintenance organisation so they could control
their costs and we then sent them a bill for our time. This they refused to pay!!!!!!
I pointed out that we were trying to rectify this on a friendly basis but I was more than happy to make a full report to the CAA .
Cheque came in the next post.
We sent all the components back to the maintenance organisation so they could control
their costs and we then sent them a bill for our time. This they refused to pay!!!!!!
I pointed out that we were trying to rectify this on a friendly basis but I was more than happy to make a full report to the CAA .
Cheque came in the next post.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
left a role of masking tape in a fuel tank.
By the way Ebbie, if your one wheel was reassembled carelessly, and that person had more than one apart, have the others checked for the same defect too!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stepturn - I am having similar thoughts.
The A&P is in Florida and I am in Barbados.
I have written to him but no reply - rather worrying as he has my two spare Comms and Navs as well as my new Icom.
If I could figure out how to do it I would put a photo of the metal things on here - maybe someone could identify what they are - so if you know how let me know and I will give it a go.
The A&P is in Florida and I am in Barbados.
I have written to him but no reply - rather worrying as he has my two spare Comms and Navs as well as my new Icom.
If I could figure out how to do it I would put a photo of the metal things on here - maybe someone could identify what they are - so if you know how let me know and I will give it a go.
Moderator
Photos can be posted by uploading them to any of the photo hosting websites (photobucket being one example of such a site, but there are many). They'll give you a link to paste into the picture tab on the advanced reply here, and your photo will be linked into your post. Please limit the maximum pixel count of the largest dimension of the photo to 600, which will probably mean that you must resize the photo, either before you upload it, or within that website.
They were carrying out the mod to the tank fillers. I think to reduce the orifice size and prevent filling with Jet A.
The tanks are integrel and as soon as we drained the fuel the glue went hard so we had to clean it out with the tanks partially filled. Done over a couple of hot summer days. One of the worst jobs I've ever done in a 45 year career. The refusal to pay was insult to injury.
The owner used to take it over the alps regularly and he reported a loss of power and "bits" in the drain fuel. When we took the fuel filter out it looked as if someone had covered it in snot!!!! How it ran at all I do not know.
The tanks are integrel and as soon as we drained the fuel the glue went hard so we had to clean it out with the tanks partially filled. Done over a couple of hot summer days. One of the worst jobs I've ever done in a 45 year career. The refusal to pay was insult to injury.
The owner used to take it over the alps regularly and he reported a loss of power and "bits" in the drain fuel. When we took the fuel filter out it looked as if someone had covered it in snot!!!! How it ran at all I do not know.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Not wishing to upstage a fellow mod, but it is now possible to upload images to PPRuNe directly - see User Control Panel (User CP) > Pictures & Albums.
SD
SD
Moderator
Not wishing to upstage a fellow mod, but it is now possible to upload images to PPRuNe directly
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK I have uploaded three pictures of the metal fragments/things into an album - how do I get them to appear on here?
394092-ebbie-2003-albums-metal-fragments-tyre
this is the link to the album maybe that does it?
394092-ebbie-2003-albums-metal-fragments-tyre
this is the link to the album maybe that does it?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe it's my eyes but those bits aren't really in focus. A sharper image might show them to be the remains of brake lining rivets. Makes sense if the AMO has a Wheel/Tyre bay; worn brakes are usually replaced in the same workshop and these may be the remains of a previous job.
Can't be sure from your photos though.
Can't be sure from your photos though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I snapped with the camera on my tablet - it is the best compromise, get further away and in focus one can't see them as they become too small.
I will get my 'proper' camera out at the weekend and take clearer photos.
They do look like cut-offs from small rivets - I agree with the rest of your suppositions.
No word from the A&P guy yet!
I will get my 'proper' camera out at the weekend and take clearer photos.
They do look like cut-offs from small rivets - I agree with the rest of your suppositions.
No word from the A&P guy yet!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, I'm with SteveF, those could be brake rivets. If they are, they have no business within a tire. The maintainer who allowed that error to occur should explain themselves....
Your more clear photo will be welcome, and may cause a refinement of thoughts. That is not wear and tear, that's faulty maintenance. You're within your rights to file a service difficulty report with the FAA. Keep the bits in case they would like to look.
Your more clear photo will be welcome, and may cause a refinement of thoughts. That is not wear and tear, that's faulty maintenance. You're within your rights to file a service difficulty report with the FAA. Keep the bits in case they would like to look.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Barbados
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.pprune.org/members/394092...er-photos.html
This is the link to slightly better photos of the metal things found in the tyre (between the tube and the tyre).
Still no response from the A&P who fitted the tyre - I would have let it go once he acknowledged the problem but it looks like firing up the lawyer and going to the FAA may be the order of the day.
Particularly worrying as he has my two spare coms, 2 spare navs and my brand new ICOM.
That the repairs I paid close to $10,000 for to get my ADF and other radio navs working appear not to be working is also a worry - my glide slope nothing, NAV 2 nothing - hoping it is just some disconnected wires - that was a problem with the autopilots - when I was in the US all my days were lost sorting those out - first the alt hold worked but not the wing level, heading etc. Then when that worked the alt hold didn't - turned out to be lots of things not plugged in - hoping the other issues are the same problem.
The silence worry me!
This is the link to slightly better photos of the metal things found in the tyre (between the tube and the tyre).
Still no response from the A&P who fitted the tyre - I would have let it go once he acknowledged the problem but it looks like firing up the lawyer and going to the FAA may be the order of the day.
Particularly worrying as he has my two spare coms, 2 spare navs and my brand new ICOM.
That the repairs I paid close to $10,000 for to get my ADF and other radio navs working appear not to be working is also a worry - my glide slope nothing, NAV 2 nothing - hoping it is just some disconnected wires - that was a problem with the autopilots - when I was in the US all my days were lost sorting those out - first the alt hold worked but not the wing level, heading etc. Then when that worked the alt hold didn't - turned out to be lots of things not plugged in - hoping the other issues are the same problem.
The silence worry me!