Clouds
All things being equal, no red herring. So many advantages. Lower stress/amxiety, options etc. An a/p could save your life. 54 years after first solo allows me to express an opinion. Don't tempt fate. "Requirement" doesn't come into it.
If you feel competent and safe without it - fine. I don't.
If you feel competent and safe without it - fine. I don't.
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The valuable discussion about IMC flight and autopilot, and the varying opinion, is worthy of consideration. However, let's remember the context of the original question. Any of this is well beyond the initial student pilot, and probably not even in a context where the value of the discussion can be appreciated by a very low time pilot.
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I have a 3 axis autopilot in my airplane.
It means I am not as scared of clouds as I used to be - still don't like them.
The AP has got me out of serious trouble once when I went into IMC (the dreaded cloud) - it doesn't really matter how it happened - it was a full on white out - I had watched the 178 Seconds to Live video - no panic just flicked a switch and pushed a couple of buttons - sorted - got out of the cloud and carried on to Trinidad.
If you have kit in the airplane use it
It means I am not as scared of clouds as I used to be - still don't like them.
The AP has got me out of serious trouble once when I went into IMC (the dreaded cloud) - it doesn't really matter how it happened - it was a full on white out - I had watched the 178 Seconds to Live video - no panic just flicked a switch and pushed a couple of buttons - sorted - got out of the cloud and carried on to Trinidad.
If you have kit in the airplane use it
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Me again.
This is rather good for those who like to avoid clouds - good for planning - here I know probably clouds with bottoms at around 3,000 and tops around 5,000 - but it helps to have confirmation.
This site is rather good
Form to request gramet aero
Seems to work all over the world and processes the raw data into a very good graphic - just put in the icao codes for the route, the time of commencement in hours from now, the flight level.
It then shows the clouds, your flight, the freezing level, rain/snow etc etc. along the route of travel - really, as I say rather good, for us nephophobics
This is rather good for those who like to avoid clouds - good for planning - here I know probably clouds with bottoms at around 3,000 and tops around 5,000 - but it helps to have confirmation.
This site is rather good
Form to request gramet aero
Seems to work all over the world and processes the raw data into a very good graphic - just put in the icao codes for the route, the time of commencement in hours from now, the flight level.
It then shows the clouds, your flight, the freezing level, rain/snow etc etc. along the route of travel - really, as I say rather good, for us nephophobics
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Re auto pilot and IMC. I only fly one aircraft with an autopilot. I was IMC once and thought I would turn it on as a bit of a luxury. It decided to put me into a 20 degree right bank (no I didn't have heading selected or anything, this was just turning the thing on...). I switched it off and only use it in VMC now. I don't know if I'm in the majority here but I find flying on instruments quite relaxing.
Re. "178 seconds to live". With under 80 hours, I got into cloud in a C152. I did as taught. Went on Instruments, did a 180° turn. Flew back until I got out of cloud. My instructors had failed to teach me to lose control if I got into cloud. I later did an IMC Rating, which I never used and allowed to lapse. I now fly an aircraft with no AH so 178 seconds is much longer than I'd expect, but with an attitude indicator you should be able to survive. IF you don't lack confidence and panic.
Moderator
I was once asked to fly a check flight in a Bellanca Viking, which had not flown in a few months, just make sure everything was working. While up, I decided I should check the autopilot too. I set everything up, heading bug on present course, and switched it on. Bellanca Vikings are fairly crisp maneuvering planes, and I was reminded of this as the roll angle commanded by the autopilot passed 60 degrees - too steep! I disconnected it. I decided that to properly report the defect, I should see just what it would do if allowed. The second test I aborted as the roll angle exceeded 120 degrees. I snagged it.
If you have an auto pilot you know and trust, excellent. If you don't quite know and trust it yet, get to know it in severe clear first!
If you have an auto pilot you know and trust, excellent. If you don't quite know and trust it yet, get to know it in severe clear first!
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Wannabe airman here
I watch a lot of videos on general aviation and a few of them warned of the danger of flying into clouds and the advice seems to be turn back asap. It got me wondering. Can you not just fly below the clouds to maintain visibility or around them. Sorry if its a silly question but I have only and one taster flight/lesson
<snip>
Thanks in advance
I watch a lot of videos on general aviation and a few of them warned of the danger of flying into clouds and the advice seems to be turn back asap. It got me wondering. Can you not just fly below the clouds to maintain visibility or around them. Sorry if its a silly question but I have only and one taster flight/lesson
<snip>
Thanks in advance
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Thing, I should have mentioned that my airplane is properly maintained and that I do all the preflight AP checks and set it up properly before I fly even if I have no plans to use the AP.
Generally on the 178 second thing - I would guess that 99%+ of the pilots who have killed themselves accidentally (or deliberately) flying in to cloud had a working AI on board.
Clouds'll kill ya - nasty puffy white b'tards!
Generally on the 178 second thing - I would guess that 99%+ of the pilots who have killed themselves accidentally (or deliberately) flying in to cloud had a working AI on board.
Clouds'll kill ya - nasty puffy white b'tards!
Thing
"I find flying on instruments quite relaxing..."
Would you share your secret ? It would save some of us an awful lot of cash invested in IMC and IR ratings plus big bucks in maintaining good currency and practice and we could sell the a/p on Ebay !
"I find flying on instruments quite relaxing..."
Would you share your secret ? It would save some of us an awful lot of cash invested in IMC and IR ratings plus big bucks in maintaining good currency and practice and we could sell the a/p on Ebay !
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No secret, it's just a matter of getting into the groove or zone for want of a better expression. You have a guy with a big radar looking out for you, all things being equal your kit is working correctly so just sit back and relax. All you have to do is watch a few dials and don't get over excited when one of them moves. Just ease it back in. Quite satisfying, to me at any rate. It's just the mental approach to it that's important rather than superman like ability (which I certainly don't have )
Obviously we still need lots of cash invested in ratings and currency as well!
Obviously we still need lots of cash invested in ratings and currency as well!
fwiw I agree with thing. Sadly I don't get many opportunities to fly in real clouds round here, but I do enjoy it. I have an autopilot but I generally turn it off when I'm in actual, for the rare opportunity to hand fly on the dials.
Oh, but my a/p is only two-axis (STEC 30, no auto trim)... so by the standards of some on here I shouldn't be there in the first place I suppose. I mean, I might miss the "trim required" light and fail to hand trim, and what would happen then?
Oh, but my a/p is only two-axis (STEC 30, no auto trim)... so by the standards of some on here I shouldn't be there in the first place I suppose. I mean, I might miss the "trim required" light and fail to hand trim, and what would happen then?
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In my airplane I have an Autocontrol plus a separate STEC - no auto trim on the pitch - I do keep a good look out for the lights, but only for when I turn it off - the STEC can handle huge out of trim forces - but I always trim it the second the light comes on.
I still think you're a mug not to use kit in the airplane - OK hand fly in IMC but not a sensible thing unless one has been awarded official Sky God 1st Class with Clusters and have lots of hours - for us newbies with only a couple of hundred hours not such a good idea.
Still not a fan of clouds
I still think you're a mug not to use kit in the airplane - OK hand fly in IMC but not a sensible thing unless one has been awarded official Sky God 1st Class with Clusters and have lots of hours - for us newbies with only a couple of hundred hours not such a good idea.
Still not a fan of clouds
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Wot I don't get about the people saying this is how confident they would be at taking over when the autopilot fails? - surely only those who are totally confident at hand flying in IMC should switch the autopilot on?
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In my airplane I have an Autocontrol plus a separate STEC - no auto trim on the pitch - I do keep a good look out for the lights, but only for when I turn it off - the STEC can handle huge out of trim forces - but I always trim it the second the light comes on.
I still think you're a mug not to use kit in the airplane - OK hand fly in IMC but not a sensible thing unless one has been awarded official Sky God 1st Class with Clusters and have lots of hours - for us newbies with only a couple of hundred hours not such a good idea.
Still not a fan of clouds
I still think you're a mug not to use kit in the airplane - OK hand fly in IMC but not a sensible thing unless one has been awarded official Sky God 1st Class with Clusters and have lots of hours - for us newbies with only a couple of hundred hours not such a good idea.
Still not a fan of clouds
surely only those who are totally confident at hand flying in IMC should switch the autopilot on?
It's certainly going to be tricky to pass an IPC or IR checkride just relying on the a/p.
Don't make yourself a 'hostage to fortune'. You're in a hostile environment, you might need all the help you can get.
If the fan stops do you fold your arms close your eyes and pray ? No, you plan for a controlled descent, and a glide approach coupled to an arrival on a friendly piece of terra firma - if you're lucky !
I sail small boats. The most useful bit of kit I have is an auto pilot slaved to a GPS. It frees me from the tyranny of the steering wheel in almost any kind of weather. It's much the same in the air.
If solo longish distance flying in changeable weather is your forte then stack the odds in your favour. It makes a lot of sense.
If the fan stops do you fold your arms close your eyes and pray ? No, you plan for a controlled descent, and a glide approach coupled to an arrival on a friendly piece of terra firma - if you're lucky !
I sail small boats. The most useful bit of kit I have is an auto pilot slaved to a GPS. It frees me from the tyranny of the steering wheel in almost any kind of weather. It's much the same in the air.
If solo longish distance flying in changeable weather is your forte then stack the odds in your favour. It makes a lot of sense.
In my time as a commercial pilot I have flown with a few former military test pilots, one from ETPS (Empire Test Pilot School) and the others from equally respectable foreign equivalents, EPNER of France being one. What marked these exceptional pilots out was their humility and complete acceptance of their own potential to make omissions and mistakes. Apart from their handling skills, high IQs and scientific proficiencies, which might have led others to believe that they were "SkyGods", they exhibited remarkable humility.
Having been "put through the wringer" in the simulator at least every 6 months for some decades and flown with outstandingly capable colleagues in all weathers, I can vouch that none of them and least of all the test pilots would ever advocate flying IMC without the autopilot engaged in rough weather. We would all be relaxed enough to hand-fly on instruments for practice in benign conditions, including the ILS down to 500' QFE or lower, but only if there wasn't some distracting problem to deal with.
Having been "put through the wringer" in the simulator at least every 6 months for some decades and flown with outstandingly capable colleagues in all weathers, I can vouch that none of them and least of all the test pilots would ever advocate flying IMC without the autopilot engaged in rough weather. We would all be relaxed enough to hand-fly on instruments for practice in benign conditions, including the ILS down to 500' QFE or lower, but only if there wasn't some distracting problem to deal with.
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Until, that is, we came across some rather bigger seas, whose frequency seemed to induce positive feedback in the autopilot's control loop, which threatened to roll the mast out of the boat. So we turned it off and steered with the tiller by hand, and bloody hard work that was too!