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Very Quick Question regarding passengers

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Very Quick Question regarding passengers

Old 29th Apr 2017, 14:07
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Very Quick Question regarding passengers

Hello,

I'm planning on taking a good friend flying in a few weeks when he comes down to visit (weather dependant). He is currently studying for his PPL and has done his first solo cross country flight. He has asked if he'll be able to fly at all whilst we're up, and my initial response was 'no, because you don't yet have your license'. I just wondered what the legalities were with this. Obviously, he wouldn't do radio, take off or landing etc, but is there any harm if he takes the controls for a period of time whilst we're up?

Thank you
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 14:29
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I think most pilots will let someone have a go, however I would advise a little caution and don't let it distract you from being in charge of the aeroplane. Fly safely and have fun.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 14:48
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Agree. Perfectly allright to have a passenger control the airplane. I volunteer for a Dutch charity and we do this all the time - with sick and handicapped children even, with the authorities knowing and endorsing what we do.

However, you are the PIC and that's what should appear in your logbook. He doesn't log anything. Also, most likely you'll be flying from the LHS so he'll be seated in the RHS. Not something that he might be used to. For that reason, plus insurance, club rules and maybe some other things, it's probably a good idea for you to handle the take-off and landing.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 15:06
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Thank you all. Of course, as PIC, I'd be cautious and 'in control' at all times (even whilst he was flying). He knows he wouldn't be able to log the time at all, but may just be nice for him to practise straight and level etc etc.

Thanks again
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 17:29
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I agree, let your passenger have some control time, what happens in the cockpit stays in the cockpit. Let them compute a W&B, and walk through the preflight with you, For the time, you fly, give your passenger a paper chart, and have them follow the navigation in detail. You can also invite them to preplan the radio communications you will make (airspace and context awareness). And, most importantly, they can share lookout duty.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 17:31
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One thing that flying as a student passenger in this situation gives is the opportunity to feel the aircraft's reactions without the pressure of doing the flying. I encourage students to fly whenever they are offered a chance to get upstairs because it is all time in the air. Picking out features, from the chart, listening to the radio transmissions, even working out how much to wind the altimeter at the destination airfield are useful.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 18:35
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Originally Posted by Step Turn View Post
I agree, let your passenger have some control time, what happens in the cockpit stays in the cockpit. Let them compute a W&B, and walk through the preflight with you, For the time, you fly, give your passenger a paper chart, and have them follow the navigation in detail. You can also invite them to preplan the radio communications you will make (airspace and context awareness). And, most importantly, they can share lookout duty.
Let them compute a W&B - but do your own
and walk through the preflight with you do it alone first
For the time, you fly, give your passenger a paper chart, and have them follow the navigation in detail - sure, why not
You can also invite them to preplan the radio communications you will make (airspace and context awareness) serious overkill
And, most importantly, they can share lookout duty - standard brie

... what goes on tour... stays on tour
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 19:05
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EAA has flown over 2 million Young Eagles and most of them got to take the controls during their flight.
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 19:56
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My 13-year old son has been flying with me since he was 2, and as soon as he could see over the coaming (with a booster seat) has been my 'autopilot' and radio/switch operator. (He doesn't transmit but he sets frequencies, etc.)
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Old 29th Apr 2017, 21:00
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Both mine fly most of the flights (aged 14 and 11). Even approaches at international airports down to about 30ft when I take over. Clearly, though, I jump in if anything is going awry (which nowadays very rarely happens).
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 02:47
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Originally Posted by tobster911 View Post
Hello,

I'm planning on taking a good friend flying in a few weeks when he comes down to visit (weather dependant). He is currently studying for his PPL and has done his first solo cross country flight. He has asked if he'll be able to fly at all whilst we're up, and my initial response was 'no, because you don't yet have your license'. I just wondered what the legalities were with this. Obviously, he wouldn't do radio, take off or landing etc, but is there any harm if he takes the controls for a period of time whilst we're up?

Thank you
When I used to fly air experience cadets in Air Cadet gliders (Sedburghs/Mk3s) I was briefed to let them handle the controls but not below 500ft.
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 10:18
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Originally Posted by tobster911 View Post
and my initial response was 'no, because you don't yet have your license'
I am a little concerned that a licenced pilot even has to ask this question.
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 10:20
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Never be afraid to ask a question someone else might find stupid/improper.

Never belittle someone who asks a question you find stupid/improper.
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 10:28
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My youngest is a fine instrument pilot, by necessity as she first started taking the controls when too short to easily see forwards !

My hands are never far from the controls, I'm obviously PIC, and as has been hinted above, should anything happen, who would know

There is actually a safety advantage in having passengers know how to handle a plane.
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Old 30th Apr 2017, 11:50
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It is OK to let him have the controls but don't try to be his instructor.
I'm surprised he wants S&L practice if he has already done his first solo x-country trip. I suggest he would get far more out of the flight by sitting in the RHS without hands on and mentally flying the trip. He could judge how far ahead of or behind you he is in what he would be doing and when and would probably get more out of it than concentrating on handling the aircraft.
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Old 1st May 2017, 10:24
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Sam, I don't think it is necessary to criticise someone who didn't belittle anyone in the first place. Anyone who has done a PPL ought to know the answer to that question. Saying so is not belittling anyone, it is a statement of the obvious.
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Old 1st May 2017, 10:34
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Your obvious is not his, thus your statement belittles him/his question.

Given the number of replies, clearly whilst the yes/no is 'obvious' to most of us - it has produced additional information which is useful.

I, for instance, have never considered that letting my kids fly means that they have a good chance of navigating and landing the aircraft should I be unable to. I was going down the 'fun' route, the safety aspect had not occurred to me.
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Old 1st May 2017, 10:39
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Thank you for the answers. I just wasn't sure what the law was regarding it, what with me not being an instructor, For example, even if I had a car with dual controls fitted, I wouldn't allow someone without a driving license to drive it. NoFlyNoMore - Why are you concerned that I have to ask this question? I don't recall ever being briefed on 'If you take a non-licensed passenger, feel free to let them fly the plane'... Do you?
Letting him do the W&B and the walkaround etc (with me or after me) is a good idea, so thank you for that. By S&L, I probably didn't mean just that, I was more alluding to not having him do the circuits and the radio comms etc. It was my bad wording, apologies.
Thank you Sam
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Old 2nd May 2017, 06:53
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Even though I worked on aircraft for 45 years - I never stopped asking questions,anybody who does not ask questions might be deemed as being dangerous !

About 10 years ago I was lucky enough to be offered a ride in a military registered 60+ year old trainer,at the pre flight briefing my pilot (who had not been qualified very long on the aircraft) asked the duty authoriser a dumb/clever question - ''can I give LR the controls'' - authoriser says ''I will check''.
So we depart and the pilot gives me control straight away (at a safe height) and after 15 blissful minutes of me poling this gorgeous aircraft around the wiltshire sky we get a radio message saying ''you cannot give your passenger control''
So off we went to Widdle Mollop and did some touch and goes on the grass (him flying ).
Hopefully the pilot never asked that question again but he was correct to ask it as he was not sure at that time.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 08:02
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Brave on the water, but not in the air!

I was living on my sailboat in Texas...my neighbor on the next boat helped me sort out the rigging. I know that he had during a storm at sea played an important role in a rescue, a very brave man indeed....so I invited him along for a ride in a rented Cessna.

When we were nicely established over the bay, I invited him to take a turn on the controls....

To my amazement, he freaked out! evidently thinking one had to be a qualified pilot otherwise the plane would drop out of the sky! I showed him that in fact the plane was flying itself, being properly trimmed....and eventually he did gather his courage, but scared and glad to hand it back. The last person I would have expected to be so unhappy having a go...

At the time I had about 500 hours in power, and was a gliding instructor, so not a beginner.

Moral of the story. You never can tell who may freak out, even possibly trying to hold up the nose when stalled! So if you are inexperienced as a solo pilot, may be a good idea to wait a bit before letting a friend fly until you have a fair number of hours in your logbook.
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