Logging as P1 or P/UT

[velo84]

I think I know the answer to this already but wanted a second or third opinion. It's a two part question:

I'm trying to add up my hours for SEP renewal so need to know what's P1 and what's not. I have an EASA PPL, I did my tailwheel endorsement in the US (I don't have a piggyback license) I wanted to know how I should log that time, P1 or PU/T? I queried the instructor there and they quoted from their regs:

"A Private Pilot Single Engine Land may *log* pilot in command time in any single-engine land plane for which he's pursuing an additional rating or endorsement"

That's US rules though so I'm sure it would be different for CAA/EASA. I tried to submit an official question to the CAA via email back in September 2016 and never got a response.

My next question is, I have done additional flying in the US (not going for any rating/endorsement) That flying was all done with an instructor because I don't have the piggyback license. Should that be logged as P1 or PU/T?

Any info appreciated.

Thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

For EASA, if there was an instructor there it's P/UT, if there wasn't, it's PiC.

Although the instructional time, whilst counting as hours, may not count against any minimum instructional requirements as the instructor was presumably not EASA qualified.

G

[MrAverage]

It's also doubtful that your differences training log book "sign off" officially counts in EASA land. However, it's not likely to ever cause you a problem as I doubt anyone knows the answer.

[9 lives]

If your license entitled you to fly the flight with a non pilot person as a passenger, and you were flying the 'plane, you can log it as PiC. If you were entitled to fly solo, you can log as PiC. If you required the participation of an instructor, and they were aboard, it's PuT.

[velo84]

Thanks for all the answers. Helps clarify for me, I was thinking along the same lines also. Just wanted to double check.

[Level Attitude]

That flying was all done with an instructor because I don't have the piggyback license

As you were/are not qualified to fly an N-Reg aircraft then none of your flying could be as PIC, and all of your flying has to have been logged as PUT.

As this was not with an EASA Instructor they are not entitled to sign you off for your Tailwheel Differences Training - so you are still not entitled to fly a Tailwheel aircraft; and none of the flying can count as the 1 hour Dual required for SEP Revalidation by Experience - as this also has to be done with an EASA Instructor.

[ChickenHouse]

As you were/are not qualified to fly an N-Reg aircraft then none of your flying could be as PIC, and all of your flying has to have been logged as PUT.

As this was not with an EASA Instructor they are not entitled to sign you off for your Tailwheel Differences Training - so you are still not entitled to fly a Tailwheel aircraft; and none of the flying can count as the 1 hour Dual required for SEP Revalidation by Experience - as this also has to be done with an EASA Instructor.

@LA: The first part I easily get, but struggle with the second. Do you have a reference stating that only an EASA instructor can sign off the logbook for difference training?

The only thing I find is, endorsements are signed off in the relevant logbook by "an instructor", no more details. I would understand the need for a "honorable and certificated and dependent EASA instructor" for putting a sign off in an EASA Part.FCL license, as I guess a FAA instructor would not be allowed to sign the holy EASA papers, but so far endorsements are logbook only. I also did not find a requirement the instructor has to be FI/CFI/FE or whatsoever, but only "suitable". Which brings me to the question where the hack did they define what an "instructor" shall mean? Sorry, if I am too dumb to find it myself.

[BillieBob]

Level Attitude is correct

FCL.900 Instructor certificates

(a) General. A person shall only carry out:

(1) flight instruction in an aircraft when he/she holds:

(i) a pilot licence issued or accepted in accordance with this Regulation,
(ii) an instructor certificate appropriate to the instruction given, issued in accordance with this Subpart;

[ChickenHouse]

@BB: Thanks a lot, I missed that one somehow.

[velo84]

Ye I mean that was my assumption about having to log it as P/UT/ but no harm in asking, hence me asking here.

@Level Attitude Funny you mention that (for the tailwheel validity statement) I actually phoned the CAA for the answer to that exact question and after putting me on hold for some time to go and query it, they came back and told me it would be recognised in the UK. I didn't expect it to count towards my 1 hour with an instructor for SEP renewal, I have already flown with an EASA instructor for 1 hour so that part is fine.

[Level Attitude]

Funny you mention that (for the tailwheel validity statement) I actually phoned the CAA for the answer to that exact question and after putting me on hold for some time to go and query it, they came back and told me it would be recognised in the UK.

Interesting given that Tailwheel Differences Training is an EASA requirement.

Wondering whether it is because the privileges of an EASA Instrutor is to teach for the issue, revalidation or renewal of Licences and Ratings and Differences Training is none of these?

[velo84]

Originally Posted by Level Attitude

Interesting given that Tailwheel Differences Training is an EASA requirement.

Wondering whether it is because the privileges of an EASA Instrutor is to teach for the issue, revalidation or renewal of Licences and Ratings and Differences Training is none of these?

Ye I'm no expert but it could be that I guess. You never know, maybe if I phoned them again and asked the same question I might get a different answer. I never got it in writing unfortunately. Could also be a lot down to what the insurance company says as well. I doubt I will do any tailwheel flying in the UK any time soon anyway as there isn't much about, especially that you can hire as P1. If I did do some then I would definitely have to do a checkout flight anyway so I could always ask the instructor doing it to sign me off again for EASA. Hopefully it wouldn't take as long as a normal tailwheel checkout because I have already done the checkout and have additional tailwheel time under my belt. Or would I technically need to fly a minimum of 5 hours with the EASA instructor to qualify?

[BossEyed]

There's no specific flying hours requirement (i.e. no 5 hr requirement) for Differences Training under EASA.

[velo84]

Originally Posted by BossEyed

There's no specific flying hours requirement (i.e. no 5 hr requirement) for Differences Training under EASA.

That's good to know, thanks.