Constant Speed Propeller

[crablab]

Hi,

I've been told that in order for me to fly a wobbly prop plane (TB-10) I need a constant speed prop rating. As far as I can see, the plane isn't counted as "complex" because the gear is fixed.

What do I need to add to my UK PPL in order to fly the aircraft and how might one go about getting said rating?

Thanks

[Whopity]

I need a constant speed prop rating.

No such thing. You need to do differences training with an Instructor who will sign your log book. Nothing more.

[ChickenHouse]

You do not need a rating, but a simple instruction and signed off endorsement "VP", Variable Pitch Propeller, in your flight log.

[crablab]

Thanks both - I was a little surprised I must say as I didn't fancy a trip down to Gatwick!

I assume it has to be an FI though, not a competent person?

[ChickenHouse]

If memory serves me well, EASA tends to use the non specific term "instructor" in the regulations, so I guess FI is fine, or anybody who is allowed to stamp and sign. I am not current on knowledge regarding Competent Person, does the EASA even know such?

And another one: if somebody wants to take a ride in a brand new Cessna Skyhawk JT-A under EASA license, does this means the need for EFIS, VP and SLPC endorsements, as it is a G1000 equipped Diesel aircraft with Single Lever control? How do you keep your endorsements records handy, (electronic?) copies of the respective flight log book entries?

[alex90]

In my logbook there are pages specifically for such endorsements, with space for it to be signed off.

These are called differences training, and to the best of my knowledge these can be signed off by either a CRI, or FI.

There is a full list of differences training available on the CAA website if one wants to check!

These are signed off in the logbook after following "appropriate" training.

Hope this helps!

[BackPacker]

And another one: if somebody wants to take a ride in a brand new Cessna Skyhawk JT-A under EASA license, does this means the need for EFIS, VP and SLPC endorsements, as it is a G1000 equipped Diesel aircraft with Single Lever control?

I don't think you'd need a separate VP signoff if you fly an SLPC aircraft. In fact, one could argue that training in an SLPC aircraft does nothing to prepare you for flying in a VP/CS aircraft.

At my club most of the ab-initio training now takes place at SLPC aircraft (Robin Ecoflyers). We need transition training if a pilot wants to convert to an aircraft with a fixed pitch propellor + manual mixture + manual carb heat.

[Flyingmac]

You do not need a rating, but a simple instruction and signed off endorsement "VP", Variable Pitch Propeller, in your flight log.

Would the VP endorsement automatically include 'Constant speed'?

[piperboy84]

Originally Posted by Flyingmac

Would the VP endorsement automatically include 'Constant speed'?

Never used a VP, does it have a governor?

[Flyingmac]

Nail on head.

[BossEyed]

A suitable (i.e. one who has the differences qualification themselves) Class Rating Instructor can do the differences training. It's worth noting that you don't have to have this done within a formal training organisation, you just need the instructor and access to a suitable aircraft.

For EASA, the "Acceptable Means of Compliance" & Guidance Material) at FCL.700 says that differences for a SEP rating are:

Variable pitch propellers;
Retractable undercarriage;
Turbo or super charged engines;
Cabin pressurisation;
Tailwheel;
EFIS;
SLPC.

[Whopity]

I assume it has to be an FI though, not a competent person?

Hopefully, the FI will be a competent person. Any FI or CRI who holds the difference themselves, can sign the log.

[9 lives]

Never used a VP, does it have a governor?

Maybe, maybe not, that's a part of the training. A CS prop is a VP, but not necessarily the other way around. There were (though in 40 years I have never seen one) hydraulic variable pitch props, which were not governed. There are now electric VP props, for which the pilot must manage RPM.

An important element of differences training for any not FP prop is the fact that loss of pitch control or governing is possible, and what action the pilot must take. In my opinion, differences training should also be required for reversing propellers, but they have not made the list yet. There are many things which should be understood with those, and their differing methods of operation.

From BossEyed's EASA list, I had an amusing discussion with the staff of the Norwegian CAA on this topic, as I was flying an EFIS single piston amphibian in Norway. At the time, it was Canadian registered, so within my privileges. When we discussed training (differences training) for the Norwegian pilots of this aircraft, the CAA pointed out that having the required signoff for EFIS on a SEP landplane would not carry over to the seaplane, and according to EASA, the differences training would have to be done again in the seaplane. Even before I told them my opinion of the silliness of this, they conceded it sounded odd, but that was the way the rules are written!

It's always a great idea to get training on a system new to you...

[POBJOY]

Complex Props

Some time ago our local pleasure flying operation used a FR172 (Reims Rocket) and needed an extra driver for the summer months.
Enter an ex RAF BA retired candidate with a 172 on his licence.
Having completed 'his 'check' he was then informed by the CAA that he could not operate the machine as he did not have VP props on his licence !!!
They would not accept a 'phone call test' so off to Redhill he had to go for an exam.
Slightly puzzled by having this guy attending for a rather simple test the CAA man inquired whether he had ever used VP props in the service.
Does 1400+ hours on Shackletons count our man responded. !!!
He was on the Rocket the next day.

[ChickenHouse]

Having completed 'his 'check' he was then informed by the CAA that he could not operate the machine as he did not have VP props on his licence !!!

How do you get an endorsement "on a license"?

[foxmoth]

Does 1400+ hours on Shackletons count our man responded. !!!

Think that gave him " Grandfather rights"!

[Silvaire1]

There were (though in 40 years I have never seen one) hydraulic variable pitch props, which were not governed. There are now electric VP props, for which the pilot must manage RPM.

Some old Bonanzas, Navions and others had variable pitch non-CS hydraulic props, diaphragm type Hartzells.

Electrically actuated props commonly have constant speed controllers. Curtiss and Beech both mass produced them a very long time ago. MT electric props and various microlight experimental props are current examples.

[POBJOY]

Endorsement

C-House]
In this case the guy had a 172 on his commercial,but the Rocket had an IO-360 injected engine with a VP prop.
He must have come off jets at BA so his licence never contained a type with a VP prop.
The fact that he had captained a machine with 4 contra rotating cs and fully feathering props did not impress the CAA that he had the required experience to use a simple VP prop on a Cessna.