Which SEP to rent, south east England
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From: London
Which SEP to rent, south east England
Hello Everyone.
I am looking to rent a plane that is relatively easy for an elderly person who cannot climb on top of the wing of a plane to be able to get in (due to back problems). They really enjoyed flying when they were younger, and I have taken them up in a C172 before.
The catch is that they are some 280 nautical miles away from London, and they're looking at going about 300 nautical miles further south to see family. I have done the trip before in a PA28RT without any issues. I have also done the the first half of the trip in the old C172, but due to strong headwinds, took me over 4 hours to do the first leg. I would be keen to fly something a little faster to pick them up, on the way to the south of France. I was hoping to fly out on a Saturday and come back on a Monday, with a total of 1200nautical miles (approx).
The usual upgrade in my mind is the C182, I believe that Denham have a C182 that they do rent out for somewhere around £195 per hour (wet) but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions with regards to both plane types which would suit the mission profile, and if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction as to where I can rent one in the south-east? (or even if anyone had an under-utilised plane that they would consider renting out)
I am happy to drive a little further afield, but based in London.
Thank you again for your help!
Alex90
I am looking to rent a plane that is relatively easy for an elderly person who cannot climb on top of the wing of a plane to be able to get in (due to back problems). They really enjoyed flying when they were younger, and I have taken them up in a C172 before.
The catch is that they are some 280 nautical miles away from London, and they're looking at going about 300 nautical miles further south to see family. I have done the trip before in a PA28RT without any issues. I have also done the the first half of the trip in the old C172, but due to strong headwinds, took me over 4 hours to do the first leg. I would be keen to fly something a little faster to pick them up, on the way to the south of France. I was hoping to fly out on a Saturday and come back on a Monday, with a total of 1200nautical miles (approx).
The usual upgrade in my mind is the C182, I believe that Denham have a C182 that they do rent out for somewhere around £195 per hour (wet) but I was wondering if anyone had any other suggestions with regards to both plane types which would suit the mission profile, and if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction as to where I can rent one in the south-east? (or even if anyone had an under-utilised plane that they would consider renting out)
I am happy to drive a little further afield, but based in London.
Thank you again for your help!
Alex90
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I've always liked the Cessna, the performance of the Arrow I normally fly is not too dissimilar to the figures you state. I do really like the Arrow too though - I've grown incredibly fond of it over the last 60 ish hours! I think I normally cruise around 140KIAS, plenty of climb... But definitely not the short field performance!
Thanks for confirming what I thought! :-)
Thanks for confirming what I thought! :-)
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The only comment I would have about their C182 is that it's a retractable - some are happy with them, some less so.
I can't recommend The Pilot Centre highly enough.
Thank you again for your help!
Alex90
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From: London
Also consider a C210 or C206 if you can find one.
It was the 182RG I flew and loved it.
Yes the turbo Arrow III that I fly is pretty nifty in comparison to others (albeit older) Arrows I have flown. I normally struggled to get much more than 120KIAS but this one flies beautifully (and is wonderfully maintained by its owner which also helps a lot!). Last summer I was flying her at around 130KIAS whilst a hairline under max gross weight, and it was 28degC @ 2,000' which in my mind is a winner! But again - definitely not the short field performance that I have read and seen the C182 do!
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Thank you Terry, I am not really looking at purchasing a share in a C182. I am very happy with the PA28RT that I normally fly. I did pop by Cambridge a few times over the last couple of years, even had an aerobatic lesson with Jon in your Extra. But it is some 2+ hours drive from where I live, so not really the place I'd be keen to fly regularly from. (especially as I live within 30minutes of 2 GA airfields).
I am only looking for this one trip to the south of France, which will be at some point this coming spring when the weather gets a little better. If you think there may be interest - let me know!
Thanks!
I am only looking for this one trip to the south of France, which will be at some point this coming spring when the weather gets a little better. If you think there may be interest - let me know!
Thanks!
Last edited by alex90; 13th December 2016 at 22:33. Reason: grammar
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: Nanaimo (CAC8)
I love the 182. Easy to fly, no vices. Fill it up with fuel and people and there's still some baggage capacity. Go anywhere at a good speed with reasonable fuel consumption. Land at International airports or farm/bush strips.
It's somewhat ironic that the one I fly these days has only two seats, is never flown faster than 70 kts. and rarely more than three miles from home. Towing gliders!
It's somewhat ironic that the one I fly these days has only two seats, is never flown faster than 70 kts. and rarely more than three miles from home. Towing gliders!
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From: UK
I agree with others on several points.
(1) A C182 is ideal for the mission spec and one of the nicest to fly aeroplanes Cessna have ever built.
(2) Pilot Centre at Denham are decent people who look after their aeroplanes well.
(3) Their C182 is a pretty good one, I've flown it (albeit several years ago).
One warning is that the CFI at Denham tends to the over thorough perhaps on checkout requirements, so budget for that.
G
(1) A C182 is ideal for the mission spec and one of the nicest to fly aeroplanes Cessna have ever built.
(2) Pilot Centre at Denham are decent people who look after their aeroplanes well.
(3) Their C182 is a pretty good one, I've flown it (albeit several years ago).
One warning is that the CFI at Denham tends to the over thorough perhaps on checkout requirements, so budget for that.
G
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Kent
Alex90,
I spent a lot of time at the Pilot Centre a few years ago - last time I hired from there was a couple of years ago.
Eva has managed to create (and maintain) a great atmosphere - helpful, friendly, ...
The comment about it being retractable refers to the saying:
which are the 3 classes of pilots who fly retractable - depending on whether they've landed wheels up.
It does put some people off
I've flown around 30 hours in the C182, owned by The Pilot Centre - I did my CPL in it (though it was based at Booker then).
OC619
I spent a lot of time at the Pilot Centre a few years ago - last time I hired from there was a couple of years ago.
Eva has managed to create (and maintain) a great atmosphere - helpful, friendly, ...
The comment about it being retractable refers to the saying:
There are:
- Those that have
- Those that will
- Those that will again
It does put some people off
I've flown around 30 hours in the C182, owned by The Pilot Centre - I did my CPL in it (though it was based at Booker then).
OC619
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OC619, Oh that old adage!! Good one! I actually merge your first and last together:
I fly a retractable regularly, so it definitely won't be putting me off! I appreciate the removal of unwanted drag, and the ability to bring that drag back if necessary!
Not sure how the C182's system works, but I assume that it is similar to the Arrow where if the power lever is below a certain level, and the gear isn't down, a horn sounds and the caution light flashes or if you select 2 stages of flaps the gear horn will sound and the caution light flashes. Which is a REALLY obvious reminder to put the gear down! Albeit I have definitely seen a couple of videos on YouTube where very experiences pilots / instructors hear the horn, see the flashing light, and yet continue the approach to land on the belly...
The closest I got to a wheels up landing was when I was on approach to Le Touquet, outside of tower operation hours (which in France you can do). And whilst on (very) long final, I don't see my three greens after selecting gear down, nor did I hear the gear mechanism do its magic. I do the first steps, Arrows have a "feature" whereby if you turn on the instrumentation lights on using the dimmer wheel, it will automatically dim the landing gear lights to the same level of intensity (which is not visible in daylight). Nope that's not it, so then I attempt to test the light bulbs (just in case all three blew at once due to a surge... highly unlikely but anyway...), I then check all the fuses, all looks good. By that time I needed to go around and held just north west of the runway over the sea. I attempt to recycle the gear, still nothing - and before using the emergency gear lever, I started checking fuel remaining in hours, checking distance able to cover safely, trying to figure out the best landing spot for a wheels up (or partially up / unreliably down) landing, then I get the emergency checklist out and go through the procedures. After turning off the master, and turning it back on, I attempt once again to lower the gear and I hear the sound of the wheels locking down - and the three greens come on! What a relief!! I then do a low pass as another aeroplane was waiting on frequency to see if they could provide any further assistance, and I decided that a visual inspection of the gear to look as though it was down and locked was a prudent move just in case (probably not going to give me any useful feedback, but made me confident that the gear was in fact down and that it didn't look cocked or anything obviously wrong).
Thanks GTE - I would rather someone be over-thorough and prevented an accident rather than under-thorough and let something waiting to happen, happen. But that you state I should "budget for that" makes me feel as though there is a story behind the scene. I would not expect to spend more than a couple of hours for the checkout and aeroplane system differences considering that I fly a "complex" aeroplane regularly, and also have quite a few hours in a C172. Are you suggesting more than 2 hours for checkout? This isn't a deal/no-deal situation - just something to bear in mind re:costs!
- Those who will
- Those who have and will again
I fly a retractable regularly, so it definitely won't be putting me off! I appreciate the removal of unwanted drag, and the ability to bring that drag back if necessary!
Not sure how the C182's system works, but I assume that it is similar to the Arrow where if the power lever is below a certain level, and the gear isn't down, a horn sounds and the caution light flashes or if you select 2 stages of flaps the gear horn will sound and the caution light flashes. Which is a REALLY obvious reminder to put the gear down! Albeit I have definitely seen a couple of videos on YouTube where very experiences pilots / instructors hear the horn, see the flashing light, and yet continue the approach to land on the belly...
The closest I got to a wheels up landing was when I was on approach to Le Touquet, outside of tower operation hours (which in France you can do). And whilst on (very) long final, I don't see my three greens after selecting gear down, nor did I hear the gear mechanism do its magic. I do the first steps, Arrows have a "feature" whereby if you turn on the instrumentation lights on using the dimmer wheel, it will automatically dim the landing gear lights to the same level of intensity (which is not visible in daylight). Nope that's not it, so then I attempt to test the light bulbs (just in case all three blew at once due to a surge... highly unlikely but anyway...), I then check all the fuses, all looks good. By that time I needed to go around and held just north west of the runway over the sea. I attempt to recycle the gear, still nothing - and before using the emergency gear lever, I started checking fuel remaining in hours, checking distance able to cover safely, trying to figure out the best landing spot for a wheels up (or partially up / unreliably down) landing, then I get the emergency checklist out and go through the procedures. After turning off the master, and turning it back on, I attempt once again to lower the gear and I hear the sound of the wheels locking down - and the three greens come on! What a relief!! I then do a low pass as another aeroplane was waiting on frequency to see if they could provide any further assistance, and I decided that a visual inspection of the gear to look as though it was down and locked was a prudent move just in case (probably not going to give me any useful feedback, but made me confident that the gear was in fact down and that it didn't look cocked or anything obviously wrong).
One warning is that the CFI at Denham tends to the over thorough perhaps on checkout requirements, so budget for that.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: UK
Only thing to consider Cessna RGs have small wheels so not so good on grass. A C177rg which is equivalent to the Arrow 111 no wing strut big doors relatively easy entry and 950lbs payload including fuel 130kt cruise close to a 182 and nicer handling. Only Cessna with a stabilator so feels more like a Piper. Only trouble is finding one to hire.
I believe they use the 182 at Denham for commercial/IFR so may have better access at weekends, nice field tight circuit and good value for money.
I believe they use the 182 at Denham for commercial/IFR so may have better access at weekends, nice field tight circuit and good value for money.
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From: London
I believe they use the 182 at Denham for commercial/IFR so may have better access at weekends, nice field tight circuit and good value for money.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Nanaimo (CAC8)
I would not expect to spend more than a couple of hours for the checkout and aeroplane system differences considering that I fly a "complex" aeroplane regularly, and also have quite a few hours in a C172. Are you suggesting more than 2 hours for checkout?
With your experience, you should expect a one-hour, one-flight checkout (assuming you have "good hands"
). Anything more than that and I would suspect that they are using that well-known piece of motor-trade equipment - the "wallet-vac*"!* I first heard this mentioned by Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers, on my favourite radio show - Car Talk http://www.cartalk.com/content/our-show
Highly recommended for humour interspersed with practical car advice. Now repeats only. RIP Tom.
Last edited by India Four Two; 14th December 2016 at 21:30. Reason: Added link
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GTE - yes that makes sense - that is what I expected.
As they didn't train me, and they don't know me, I would be very surprised if they let someone loose with a plane after 20mins! I would expect no less than most manoeuvres, ie, stalls, steep turns, PFLs, basic flying skills.... before returning with some circuits with different approach flaps, maybe even a glide approach.
I have seen PPLs who are very capable, and I have seen PPLs who I thought were definitely trying to kill me on final approach... I have seen a PPL do a "left base join", by flying the left base, followed by the right base, followed by turning onto right hand downwind, before making a max rate turn at 800' before joining downwind for a right hand circuit. So I wouldn't take for granted anyone who came through the door!
As they didn't train me, and they don't know me, I would be very surprised if they let someone loose with a plane after 20mins! I would expect no less than most manoeuvres, ie, stalls, steep turns, PFLs, basic flying skills.... before returning with some circuits with different approach flaps, maybe even a glide approach.
I have seen PPLs who are very capable, and I have seen PPLs who I thought were definitely trying to kill me on final approach... I have seen a PPL do a "left base join", by flying the left base, followed by the right base, followed by turning onto right hand downwind, before making a max rate turn at 800' before joining downwind for a right hand circuit. So I wouldn't take for granted anyone who came through the door!
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From: UK
alex90 with the Pilots Centre at Denham they did have a scheme of paying a £1000 on account and receiving a percentage of the price worth checking out. Normally I would say never pay up front but as the airfield and the club are both owned by the same family for the last 3 generations with the latest all instructors I don't think it's a worry.
Have a good trip.
Have a good trip.
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Thank you horizon flyer.
Considering that in this one trip, I will most likely be spending over £1000, it makes little difference to me to pay it upfront, or after the flight (and may well make little difference to them either). I will just pop down there and have a chat within the next couple of months.
Thank you for all your help!
Considering that in this one trip, I will most likely be spending over £1000, it makes little difference to me to pay it upfront, or after the flight (and may well make little difference to them either). I will just pop down there and have a chat within the next couple of months.
Thank you for all your help!
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From: Welwyn
Have you considered a Saratoga, easy access through a large rear door and plenty of room for your passenger.. and not too dissimilar from the Arrow
two available for hire from Modern Air at Fowlmere (next to Duxford) Home
two available for hire from Modern Air at Fowlmere (next to Duxford) Home
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From: London
Thank you skydiver548,
The Saratogas that I have seen, you did have to climb to get in, and bend your head a bit to get seated. Are there other modes which have slightly easier access? Do some have airstairs?
This isn't for me, it is for an elderly passenger that cannot bend his back, steps are difficult if not standard depth (due to back injury). So ideally attempting to have the easiest in/out.
Thanks.
Alex
The Saratogas that I have seen, you did have to climb to get in, and bend your head a bit to get seated. Are there other modes which have slightly easier access? Do some have airstairs?
This isn't for me, it is for an elderly passenger that cannot bend his back, steps are difficult if not standard depth (due to back injury). So ideally attempting to have the easiest in/out.
Thanks.
Alex