Maurice Kirk is in Africa
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Perhaps if UK law changed to the effect that people with the means, such as Maurice, paid for their own keep while in prison, which is around £40,000 per year, it might focus Maurice's mind. Having said that what a complete waste of public money (£80,000) when there were other alternatives for what is a harmless and ecentric elderly man.
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I have no first hand knowledge of this case and all I know is what I have read here and on Flyer in this and other threads: but the impression that this makes on me is that sending this man to prison will at best just postpone the problem until he gets out.
I think he needs help, and he is unlikely to get that in prison. That isn’t meant to be a jibe, but is a serious suggestion.
I think he needs help, and he is unlikely to get that in prison. That isn’t meant to be a jibe, but is a serious suggestion.
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In response to the last two posts: I don’t think he is harmless, and I agree it’s a horrible crime.
But everything I have read about Mr Kirk suggests that just locking him up for two years (actually it’s more likely to be less than a year* if he doesn’t lose his remission) isn’t going to solve either of those problems.
Given what I have read of his past history: I would suggest that treatment, compulsory if necessary, is more likely to stop the problem happening again when he gets out. Of course, if it does happen again, they can always just keep jailing him again. But that is hardly going to fix the problem; and will be far more costly both financially as well as emotionally for his victim.
Just my £.02
* That estimate is based on what happened to fraudster Kevin Crellin
But everything I have read about Mr Kirk suggests that just locking him up for two years (actually it’s more likely to be less than a year* if he doesn’t lose his remission) isn’t going to solve either of those problems.
Given what I have read of his past history: I would suggest that treatment, compulsory if necessary, is more likely to stop the problem happening again when he gets out. Of course, if it does happen again, they can always just keep jailing him again. But that is hardly going to fix the problem; and will be far more costly both financially as well as emotionally for his victim.
Just my £.02
* That estimate is based on what happened to fraudster Kevin Crellin
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A harmless and eccentric elderly man he is not.
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In Maurice's case they would not be effective. From the story so far I'd guess he's not mentally ill so there would be no treatment that would address his problems - though a 'liquid cosh' might help.
He's just a difficult person with obsessions. A shame these are self-destructive. If he carries on as he's going he'll die in jail - a sad end for a pilot
He's just a difficult person with obsessions. A shame these are self-destructive. If he carries on as he's going he'll die in jail - a sad end for a pilot
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In case it helps with ideas of what to do? If people wish the forum may be correct to write to the authorities (need to be prison governor and Whitehall Public Protect Unit as he is registered there as an extreme risk) and say that while wishing to condemn any acts that may be harassment, the people on the forum who know 73 year old Maurice, are concerned that for various reasons he should not be serving his sentence in a prison as at present. And explain that people who know Maurice, know him not to be a risk and ask the authorities to be imaginative about alternatives, (such as a bail hostel, open prison, low secure hospital, or a tag with strict conditions). And that this outcome would protect the health and well being of prison staff as well as saving the taxpayer considerable expense?
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If that is for me: I am not a mental health professional and wouldn’t want to try to specify a course of treatment.
I just think that, based purely on what I read here, the man appears to be unwell and needs treatment. He isn’t going to get that in jail, and when he is released, history suggests that the probability is that he will just re-offend. I suggest it would be better if he spent the time in a suitable hospital where he might get some help to prevent that.
I just think that, based purely on what I read here, the man appears to be unwell and needs treatment. He isn’t going to get that in jail, and when he is released, history suggests that the probability is that he will just re-offend. I suggest it would be better if he spent the time in a suitable hospital where he might get some help to prevent that.
I just think that, based purely on what I read here, the man appears to be unwell and needs treatment.
On second thoughts, don't answer that. You don't know and I don't know. My general feeling is that he has shown a fairly longstanding pattern of unreasonable behaviour and I agree with you that prison is unlikely to change this. However, I would take a fair bit of convincing to believe that a psychiatric hospital would make a lot of difference, and it would be even more of a drain on public finances.
And explain that people who know Maurice, know him not to be a risk and ask the authorities to be imaginative about alternatives,
robin wrote:
I can't imagine that 'Big Ron of 'E' wing' will tolerate Kirk's ramblings for very long...
I don't envy the staff at the prison. He's going to be pulling some prima-donna stunts there, which will only extend his stay, at taxpayers expense.
In 1970, Kirk parachuted into his own wedding, landing in a farm field belonging to a late family friend of mine...
...into a steaming cow pat!
He dropped himself into the $hit then and that appears to be where he's been ever since!
...into a steaming cow pat!
He dropped himself into the $hit then and that appears to be where he's been ever since!
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When I commented that Maurice is a harmless old man, by that I mean I do not think he is a danger to society such as causing physical harm or arson. On that basis I felt there were alternatives to a custodial sentence. I do agree he is very angry and agressive in relation to his cause, which is rather like Jandyce v Jandyce, as others have stated he needs psychological help.
I would add that CEOs, lawyers and the police have some of the highests rates of psychopaths, yet we do not lock them up.
I would add that CEOs, lawyers and the police have some of the highests rates of psychopaths, yet we do not lock them up.
I would add that CEOs, lawyers and the police have some of the highests rates of psychopaths, yet we do not lock them up.
Thread Starter
For those who don't know the background Maurice Kirk was preparing a prosecution of the South Wales Police some years ago when he was incarcerated under Section 35 of the Mental Health Act 1983.
The case against Kirk revolved around a deactivated machine gun that was fitted to an aircraft he had purchased.
When examined later by a couple of psychiatrists they declared him sane and the CAA returned his pilots licence.
He has been trying to prosecute the doctor concerned and the South Wales Police since for false imprisonment.
Had I been locked up in a mental hospital on false allegations I think I would want to sue those concerned.
Kirks problem is he does not use lawyers and instead gets himself in to deeper water as a litigant in person.
The case against Kirk revolved around a deactivated machine gun that was fitted to an aircraft he had purchased.
When examined later by a couple of psychiatrists they declared him sane and the CAA returned his pilots licence.
He has been trying to prosecute the doctor concerned and the South Wales Police since for false imprisonment.
Had I been locked up in a mental hospital on false allegations I think I would want to sue those concerned.
Kirks problem is he does not use lawyers and instead gets himself in to deeper water as a litigant in person.
Jay Sata - that's about the clearest explanation I've seen. It's very difficult to comprehend the story from Mr Kirk's numerous website and Facebook dissertations.
I suppose the points arising are:
1. I doubt he was sectioned for 'insanity' which is really only a legal term. There's a large menu of disorders to choose from including: schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, personality disorder etc. If he was detained under a Section 2 or 3, it wouldn't have just been the person Kirk was harassing, it takes three professionals to section someone - none of them police. If it was a section 4, only one doc is required but Kirk would only receive treatment for 72hrs before he must be released.
2. Even if he was suffering from a sectionable disorder , at some point he would recover due to time or medication and that is when he would be released following an examination.
I think any reasonable person reading his various essay's would conclude that they are written in a style of someone who has a problem. This conclusion would possibly be confirmed by the fact he was given plenty of warnings to stop his harassment activity but didn't and therefore has to face the punishment.
Others have asked if it is fair to comment on him here? I think so because he has commented on PPRuNe, published his grievances on his website and Facebook and of course, he is a pilot.
I suppose the points arising are:
1. I doubt he was sectioned for 'insanity' which is really only a legal term. There's a large menu of disorders to choose from including: schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, personality disorder etc. If he was detained under a Section 2 or 3, it wouldn't have just been the person Kirk was harassing, it takes three professionals to section someone - none of them police. If it was a section 4, only one doc is required but Kirk would only receive treatment for 72hrs before he must be released.
2. Even if he was suffering from a sectionable disorder , at some point he would recover due to time or medication and that is when he would be released following an examination.
I think any reasonable person reading his various essay's would conclude that they are written in a style of someone who has a problem. This conclusion would possibly be confirmed by the fact he was given plenty of warnings to stop his harassment activity but didn't and therefore has to face the punishment.
Others have asked if it is fair to comment on him here? I think so because he has commented on PPRuNe, published his grievances on his website and Facebook and of course, he is a pilot.
Thread Starter
Thanks for that Clareprop.
Kirk is well know in UK flying circles as someone who appears to resent authority.
His piloting skills may be unorthodox but he certainly can fly as his long distance exploits have proved. However he is not a team player so often finds himself in difficult situations of his own making. The Crete to Cape expedition is an example of where he could have saved himself a lot of grief if he had stayed with the rest of the group.
Over the years he has spent several terms on remand in prison for matters that are later dropped or where he was found not guilty.
He was a very succesful vetinary surgeon for decades until attending a dog that was in trouble around 30 years ago. He had some sort of falling out with the police who had called him out and the result was an argument that escalated over the years.
This led to complaints to the Royal College Of Vetinary Surgeons who struck him off. This was nothing to do with his vetinary skills but complaints from the South Wales police regarding his ongoing dispute with them.
Looking at his incarceration history there are many serious criminals and murderers who spent less time inside.
I don't know if his allegations against the South Wales Police force have any substance. However they have been found guilty in other cases from the past.
What Kirk needs the help of a good lawyer and what few friends he has left.
He clearly feels the police doctor who had him locked has a case to answer. Given that no other psychiatrist endorsed his diagnosis I am inclined to agree.
What is needed is a clear public statement from the South Wales Police rebutting Kirks allegations with a timeline of facts.
Kirk is well know in UK flying circles as someone who appears to resent authority.
His piloting skills may be unorthodox but he certainly can fly as his long distance exploits have proved. However he is not a team player so often finds himself in difficult situations of his own making. The Crete to Cape expedition is an example of where he could have saved himself a lot of grief if he had stayed with the rest of the group.
Over the years he has spent several terms on remand in prison for matters that are later dropped or where he was found not guilty.
He was a very succesful vetinary surgeon for decades until attending a dog that was in trouble around 30 years ago. He had some sort of falling out with the police who had called him out and the result was an argument that escalated over the years.
This led to complaints to the Royal College Of Vetinary Surgeons who struck him off. This was nothing to do with his vetinary skills but complaints from the South Wales police regarding his ongoing dispute with them.
Looking at his incarceration history there are many serious criminals and murderers who spent less time inside.
I don't know if his allegations against the South Wales Police force have any substance. However they have been found guilty in other cases from the past.
What Kirk needs the help of a good lawyer and what few friends he has left.
He clearly feels the police doctor who had him locked has a case to answer. Given that no other psychiatrist endorsed his diagnosis I am inclined to agree.
What is needed is a clear public statement from the South Wales Police rebutting Kirks allegations with a timeline of facts.
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 6th Feb 2018 at 10:32.