Biggin Hill CEO Strikes Again!!! - This time he comes for the Scouts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Biggin Hill CEO Strikes Again!!! - This time he comes for the Scouts
Press Notice
Gate Closes on Friday 30th September for Air Scouts at Biggin Hill
After more than 30 years, Air Scouts based at Biggin Hill have been told to pack up and push off after their lease was terminated 3½ years early, to provide parking for just a few more vehicles! They have been given six weeks to vacate their premises and remove valuable equipment including their Comet flight simulator.
The management team at Biggin Hill Airport Limited has decided they no longer want Scout Groups from across Bromley, South London and the Home Counties to benefit from an introduction to the aviation world or to have access to the various historic sites providing a tangible understanding of British 2nd World War history.
Whilst alternative accommodation was briefly offered to the Air Scouts, this was quickly withdrawn once BHAL decided the premises could be better and more profitably used for commercial purposes.
Scouts’ Air Adviser Ian Piper said: “We are all very sad that our association with the airport has come to an end. During our time here we have introduced over 10,000 young people to the delights of aviation and hopefully some of them will become our pilots of the future. We were prepared to meet all the stringent health, safety and security conditions put forward by the airport, on top of our own existing comprehensive care arrangements. Sadly this was not enough to secure our position at the airfield.
“Right now, we are all hoping for a solution that will prevent our historic Comet flight simulator from being scrapped. The flight simulator allows young people, many from underprivileged backgrounds to experience a unique flight experience by piloting a rare 1950’s airliner. This also poses questions to the viability of the other smaller businesses located on the airfield. We also feel that it is essential that the remaining historic WW2 structures at Biggin Hill be listed as quickly as possible to ensure they are protected for future generations.
“If there is anyone who thinks they could offer us assistance, we would welcome hearing from you.”
NOTES TO EDITORS
The Scout Aviation Centre (SAC) is operated by South London Scouts, a registered charity (reg no 303883) with leaders from South and South East London.
Scouts have used the facilities at Biggin Hill Airport since the 1960s with a Scout aviation building on the current site since 1985. It does not receive any public funding or subsidy and relies entirely on fees from users and donations for its upkeep. All staff are volunteers – there are no paid staff.
Its users comprise mostly Scout Association members from Bromley and other South London Boroughs, and visitors from nearby Scout campsites. It has also hosted young people from other youth organisations e.g. Air Training Corps and Girl Guides, as well as schools.
It gives young people an introduction to aviation in a practical environment, at an age when it will build their enthusiasm. The youngest users have been 6-7 year old Beaver Scouts.
The key purpose of the SAC is to give Scouts safe, supervised access to aircraft lent by private owners and flying clubs, and a chance to learn about our heritage through properly escorted tours.
An example of the excellent relationship the Scouts enjoy with companies on the Airport comes from Amarjit Singh Bamrah, owner of Falcon Flying Services, Surrey & Kent Flying Club and EFG Flying School. His team have been actively supporting the Scouts for decades and commented ‘You all are part of Biggin Hill’s Heritage and an important part of our community as many scouts have learnt flying and progressed to greater careers. You have our full support and we pray some situation is sorted out soon’.
The current lease (15 years) does not expire until June 2018. It is coming to an end only because BHAL decided in January to terminate it 3½ years early.
We have not benefitted from a ‘heavily subsidised’ or peppercorn rent for the site. The rent per square foot is in line with local market conditions. It may seem relatively low because we provided the building and the services connections ourselves, so we were only renting the ground it stands on.
The Comet Flight Simulator was restored by the Scouts over a period of years at a cost of £3,000 with computer screens replacing the original analogue instruments. It can simulate flights to most civil airports in the UK and the rest of the world.
The SAC sits on the footprint of a wartime RAF fighter Squadron dispersal area, appropriate given that the Air Scout branch took off following interest generated by the Battle of Britain. Until recently the Scouts learnt about the history through tours of the surviving wartime installations and once a year access for the general public at Open House events.
The last event programmed to be held at the Centre is a Flight Simulator experience day on Monday 30 August. Media visitors are welcome on that occasion.
For enquiries please DM
Gate Closes on Friday 30th September for Air Scouts at Biggin Hill
After more than 30 years, Air Scouts based at Biggin Hill have been told to pack up and push off after their lease was terminated 3½ years early, to provide parking for just a few more vehicles! They have been given six weeks to vacate their premises and remove valuable equipment including their Comet flight simulator.
The management team at Biggin Hill Airport Limited has decided they no longer want Scout Groups from across Bromley, South London and the Home Counties to benefit from an introduction to the aviation world or to have access to the various historic sites providing a tangible understanding of British 2nd World War history.
Whilst alternative accommodation was briefly offered to the Air Scouts, this was quickly withdrawn once BHAL decided the premises could be better and more profitably used for commercial purposes.
Scouts’ Air Adviser Ian Piper said: “We are all very sad that our association with the airport has come to an end. During our time here we have introduced over 10,000 young people to the delights of aviation and hopefully some of them will become our pilots of the future. We were prepared to meet all the stringent health, safety and security conditions put forward by the airport, on top of our own existing comprehensive care arrangements. Sadly this was not enough to secure our position at the airfield.
“Right now, we are all hoping for a solution that will prevent our historic Comet flight simulator from being scrapped. The flight simulator allows young people, many from underprivileged backgrounds to experience a unique flight experience by piloting a rare 1950’s airliner. This also poses questions to the viability of the other smaller businesses located on the airfield. We also feel that it is essential that the remaining historic WW2 structures at Biggin Hill be listed as quickly as possible to ensure they are protected for future generations.
“If there is anyone who thinks they could offer us assistance, we would welcome hearing from you.”
NOTES TO EDITORS
The Scout Aviation Centre (SAC) is operated by South London Scouts, a registered charity (reg no 303883) with leaders from South and South East London.
Scouts have used the facilities at Biggin Hill Airport since the 1960s with a Scout aviation building on the current site since 1985. It does not receive any public funding or subsidy and relies entirely on fees from users and donations for its upkeep. All staff are volunteers – there are no paid staff.
Its users comprise mostly Scout Association members from Bromley and other South London Boroughs, and visitors from nearby Scout campsites. It has also hosted young people from other youth organisations e.g. Air Training Corps and Girl Guides, as well as schools.
It gives young people an introduction to aviation in a practical environment, at an age when it will build their enthusiasm. The youngest users have been 6-7 year old Beaver Scouts.
The key purpose of the SAC is to give Scouts safe, supervised access to aircraft lent by private owners and flying clubs, and a chance to learn about our heritage through properly escorted tours.
An example of the excellent relationship the Scouts enjoy with companies on the Airport comes from Amarjit Singh Bamrah, owner of Falcon Flying Services, Surrey & Kent Flying Club and EFG Flying School. His team have been actively supporting the Scouts for decades and commented ‘You all are part of Biggin Hill’s Heritage and an important part of our community as many scouts have learnt flying and progressed to greater careers. You have our full support and we pray some situation is sorted out soon’.
The current lease (15 years) does not expire until June 2018. It is coming to an end only because BHAL decided in January to terminate it 3½ years early.
We have not benefitted from a ‘heavily subsidised’ or peppercorn rent for the site. The rent per square foot is in line with local market conditions. It may seem relatively low because we provided the building and the services connections ourselves, so we were only renting the ground it stands on.
The Comet Flight Simulator was restored by the Scouts over a period of years at a cost of £3,000 with computer screens replacing the original analogue instruments. It can simulate flights to most civil airports in the UK and the rest of the world.
The SAC sits on the footprint of a wartime RAF fighter Squadron dispersal area, appropriate given that the Air Scout branch took off following interest generated by the Battle of Britain. Until recently the Scouts learnt about the history through tours of the surviving wartime installations and once a year access for the general public at Open House events.
The last event programmed to be held at the Centre is a Flight Simulator experience day on Monday 30 August. Media visitors are welcome on that occasion.
For enquiries please DM
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Unna, Germany
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think I'll change my prayer for tonight...... sod peace on earth and good will to all mankind, tonight I'm going to pray for planning permission of a hard runway at Redhill and an infestation of fleas upon all those who decided on such action at BHAL 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is a real big shame.
Do they really need any more car parking spaces? On the road leading to the Scouts, there is a huuuuge field on the right (east) of the road, which they often use during events as a grass carpark. Couldn't they just tarmac over that? But also... If they really wanted more car parking spaces, surely they could just tarmac over much of the space north of the fire crew's testing area, and all the way up the right hand side of Alpha taxiway!? Even just reclaim a little of the area just north of the heritage hangar... I mean you could probably park upwards from 1000 cars there alone!! (as if 1000 cars would EVER turn up for anything other than the airshow... I don't know...)
Why could they not offer an alternative location? Surely there is enough space to build a whole other town on the airfield!
Steve6443, Can you also please add an instrument approach to your prayers please? And maybe flood prevention too? I've seen too many pictures of the flooded airfield / after storms rather "disheveled" airfield pictures....
I am a little baffled by these decisions, but I've heard from on high - that, if the field was to remain open, there was quite a lot of pressure with regards to financial profits. So perhaps they believe that if the space was rebuilt, they may be able to increase profits per square metre... There is also a small number of people who purchased houses under the approach paths who are "unhappy" about the level of noise which they [bizarrely] didn't expect when they purchased a house next to an airfield (which has been there since 1917 - that's 99 years ago! I can safely assume that they ALL knew there was an airfield there before purchasing / moving in!). Some of these people are (and I quote) "important people with high connections" which "have been causing problems at all levels for a substantial amount of time". Clearly though, they seem to lack the common sense to investigate the property that they are purchasing - and if noise pollution from a nearby airfield was an issue - to simple NOT purchase their house there. Anyway - these people have also been putting financial pressure on the airfield, which may also have been a factor...
But then why Biggin decides to accept more private jets which are much louder, require set approach paths and push us little guys who *can* manoeuvre away from noise sensitive areas out of Biggin really confuses me.
(highlighted can because some pilots don't seem to be able to follow simple instructions...)
Do they really need any more car parking spaces? On the road leading to the Scouts, there is a huuuuge field on the right (east) of the road, which they often use during events as a grass carpark. Couldn't they just tarmac over that? But also... If they really wanted more car parking spaces, surely they could just tarmac over much of the space north of the fire crew's testing area, and all the way up the right hand side of Alpha taxiway!? Even just reclaim a little of the area just north of the heritage hangar... I mean you could probably park upwards from 1000 cars there alone!! (as if 1000 cars would EVER turn up for anything other than the airshow... I don't know...)
Why could they not offer an alternative location? Surely there is enough space to build a whole other town on the airfield!
Steve6443, Can you also please add an instrument approach to your prayers please? And maybe flood prevention too? I've seen too many pictures of the flooded airfield / after storms rather "disheveled" airfield pictures....
I am a little baffled by these decisions, but I've heard from on high - that, if the field was to remain open, there was quite a lot of pressure with regards to financial profits. So perhaps they believe that if the space was rebuilt, they may be able to increase profits per square metre... There is also a small number of people who purchased houses under the approach paths who are "unhappy" about the level of noise which they [bizarrely] didn't expect when they purchased a house next to an airfield (which has been there since 1917 - that's 99 years ago! I can safely assume that they ALL knew there was an airfield there before purchasing / moving in!). Some of these people are (and I quote) "important people with high connections" which "have been causing problems at all levels for a substantial amount of time". Clearly though, they seem to lack the common sense to investigate the property that they are purchasing - and if noise pollution from a nearby airfield was an issue - to simple NOT purchase their house there. Anyway - these people have also been putting financial pressure on the airfield, which may also have been a factor...
But then why Biggin decides to accept more private jets which are much louder, require set approach paths and push us little guys who *can* manoeuvre away from noise sensitive areas out of Biggin really confuses me.
(highlighted can because some pilots don't seem to be able to follow simple instructions...)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, in all great stories, there are two sides. So BH, lets hear your side. Turfing the Boy Scouts out, is truly bad form, and in the precise above, there are some strange comments. If the lease is robust, the landlord cannot simply throw a tenant out. He would have to irritate the lease, as per whichever clause was breached by the tenant. There may be a break clause, although these are generally at set points - first qtr, half way, third qtr etc. Again, on a lease of 15 years, the notice period, if it were buried in the fine print, should be at least six months, to allow each side some wiggle room. Nope, me thinks more to this......
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Biggin Hill
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gate Closes on Friday 30th September for Air Scouts at Biggin Hill
After more than 30 years, Air Scouts based at Biggin Hill have been told to pack up and push off after their lease was terminated 3½ years early, to provide parking for just a few more vehicles! They have been given six weeks to vacate their premises and remove valuable equipment including their Comet flight simulator. Notice was first given at the beginning of the year, however alternate accomodation was then offerd but declined as they needed to substantially alter the building to allow the sim to fit.
The management team at Biggin Hill Airport Limited has decided they no longer want Scout Groups from across Bromley, South London and the Home Counties to benefit from an introduction to the aviation world or to have access to the various historic sites providing a tangible understanding of British 2nd World War history.
Whilst alternative accommodation was briefly offered to the Air Scouts, this was quickly withdrawn once BHAL decided the premises could be better and more profitably used for commercial purposes. This is untrue as stated above, the offer was made and declined by the SAC not withdrawn by the airport.
Scouts’ Air Adviser Ian Piper said: “We are all very sad that our association with the airport has come to an end. During our time here we have introduced over 10,000 young people to the delights of aviation and hopefully some of them will become our pilots of the future. We were prepared to meet all the stringent health, safety and security conditions put forward by the airport, on top of our own existing comprehensive care arrangements. Sadly this was not enough to secure our position at the airfield. They wished to take children as young as 6 years of age that they charged to attend, onto operational areas of the airport without any airport staff supervision.
“Right now, we are all hoping for a solution that will prevent our historic Comet flight simulator from being scrapped. The flight simulator allows young people, many from underprivileged backgrounds They charged £25 per hour for these children to use the simto experience a unique flight experience by piloting a rare 1950’s airliner. This also poses questions to the viability of the other smaller businesses located on the airfield. We also feel that it is essential that the remaining historic WW2 structures at Biggin Hill be listed as quickly as possible to ensure they are protected for future generations. A plan of restoration is in place for the centenary year, 2017 for the historic elements of the site.
“If there is anyone who thinks they could offer us assistance, we would welcome hearing from you.”
NOTES TO EDITORS
The Scout Aviation Centre (SAC) is operated by South London Scouts, a registered charity (reg no 303883) with leaders from South and South East London.
Scouts have used the facilities at Biggin Hill Airport since the 1960s with a Scout aviation building on the current site since 1985. It does not receive any public funding or subsidy and relies entirely on fees from users and donations for its upkeep. All staff are volunteers – there are no paid staff.
Its users comprise mostly Scout Association members from Bromley and other South London Boroughs, and visitors from nearby Scout campsites. It has also hosted young people from other youth organisations e.g. Air Training Corps and Girl Guides, as well as schools.
It gives young people an introduction to aviation in a practical environment, at an age when it will build their enthusiasm. The youngest users have been 6-7 year old Beaver Scouts.
The key purpose of the SAC is to give Scouts safe, supervised access to aircraft lent by private owners and flying clubs, and a chance to learn about our heritage through properly escorted tours.
An example of the excellent relationship the Scouts enjoy with companies on the Airport comes from Amarjit Singh Bamrah, owner of Falcon Flying Services, Surrey & Kent Flying Club and EFG Flying School. His team have been actively supporting the Scouts for decades and commented ‘You all are part of Biggin Hill’s Heritage and an important part of our community as many scouts have learnt flying and progressed to greater careers. You have our full support and we pray some situation is sorted out soon’.
The current lease (15 years) does not expire until June 2018. It is coming to an end only because BHAL decided in January to terminate it 3½ years early. if the above is correct then the lease was terminated 20 months early
We have not benefitted from a ‘heavily subsidised’ or peppercorn rent for the site. I would say that £300 per annum is subsidised The rent per square foot is in line with local market conditions. It may seem relatively low because we provided the building and the services connections ourselves, so we were only renting the ground it stands on.
The Comet Flight Simulator was restored by the Scouts over a period of years at a cost of £3,000 with computer screens replacing the original analogue instruments. It can simulate flights to most civil airports in the UK and the rest of the world.
The SAC sits on the footprint of a wartime RAF fighter Squadron dispersal area, appropriate given that the Air Scout branch took off following interest generated by the Battle of Britain. Until recently the Scouts learnt about the history through tours of the surviving wartime installations and once a year access for the general public at Open House events. Again unsupervised access to operational areas
The last event programmed to be held at the Centre is a Flight Simulator experience day on Monday 30 August. Media visitors are welcome on that occasion.
For enquiries please DM
bigginsac is offline Report Post
After more than 30 years, Air Scouts based at Biggin Hill have been told to pack up and push off after their lease was terminated 3½ years early, to provide parking for just a few more vehicles! They have been given six weeks to vacate their premises and remove valuable equipment including their Comet flight simulator. Notice was first given at the beginning of the year, however alternate accomodation was then offerd but declined as they needed to substantially alter the building to allow the sim to fit.
The management team at Biggin Hill Airport Limited has decided they no longer want Scout Groups from across Bromley, South London and the Home Counties to benefit from an introduction to the aviation world or to have access to the various historic sites providing a tangible understanding of British 2nd World War history.
Whilst alternative accommodation was briefly offered to the Air Scouts, this was quickly withdrawn once BHAL decided the premises could be better and more profitably used for commercial purposes. This is untrue as stated above, the offer was made and declined by the SAC not withdrawn by the airport.
Scouts’ Air Adviser Ian Piper said: “We are all very sad that our association with the airport has come to an end. During our time here we have introduced over 10,000 young people to the delights of aviation and hopefully some of them will become our pilots of the future. We were prepared to meet all the stringent health, safety and security conditions put forward by the airport, on top of our own existing comprehensive care arrangements. Sadly this was not enough to secure our position at the airfield. They wished to take children as young as 6 years of age that they charged to attend, onto operational areas of the airport without any airport staff supervision.
“Right now, we are all hoping for a solution that will prevent our historic Comet flight simulator from being scrapped. The flight simulator allows young people, many from underprivileged backgrounds They charged £25 per hour for these children to use the simto experience a unique flight experience by piloting a rare 1950’s airliner. This also poses questions to the viability of the other smaller businesses located on the airfield. We also feel that it is essential that the remaining historic WW2 structures at Biggin Hill be listed as quickly as possible to ensure they are protected for future generations. A plan of restoration is in place for the centenary year, 2017 for the historic elements of the site.
“If there is anyone who thinks they could offer us assistance, we would welcome hearing from you.”
NOTES TO EDITORS
The Scout Aviation Centre (SAC) is operated by South London Scouts, a registered charity (reg no 303883) with leaders from South and South East London.
Scouts have used the facilities at Biggin Hill Airport since the 1960s with a Scout aviation building on the current site since 1985. It does not receive any public funding or subsidy and relies entirely on fees from users and donations for its upkeep. All staff are volunteers – there are no paid staff.
Its users comprise mostly Scout Association members from Bromley and other South London Boroughs, and visitors from nearby Scout campsites. It has also hosted young people from other youth organisations e.g. Air Training Corps and Girl Guides, as well as schools.
It gives young people an introduction to aviation in a practical environment, at an age when it will build their enthusiasm. The youngest users have been 6-7 year old Beaver Scouts.
The key purpose of the SAC is to give Scouts safe, supervised access to aircraft lent by private owners and flying clubs, and a chance to learn about our heritage through properly escorted tours.
An example of the excellent relationship the Scouts enjoy with companies on the Airport comes from Amarjit Singh Bamrah, owner of Falcon Flying Services, Surrey & Kent Flying Club and EFG Flying School. His team have been actively supporting the Scouts for decades and commented ‘You all are part of Biggin Hill’s Heritage and an important part of our community as many scouts have learnt flying and progressed to greater careers. You have our full support and we pray some situation is sorted out soon’.
The current lease (15 years) does not expire until June 2018. It is coming to an end only because BHAL decided in January to terminate it 3½ years early. if the above is correct then the lease was terminated 20 months early
We have not benefitted from a ‘heavily subsidised’ or peppercorn rent for the site. I would say that £300 per annum is subsidised The rent per square foot is in line with local market conditions. It may seem relatively low because we provided the building and the services connections ourselves, so we were only renting the ground it stands on.
The Comet Flight Simulator was restored by the Scouts over a period of years at a cost of £3,000 with computer screens replacing the original analogue instruments. It can simulate flights to most civil airports in the UK and the rest of the world.
The SAC sits on the footprint of a wartime RAF fighter Squadron dispersal area, appropriate given that the Air Scout branch took off following interest generated by the Battle of Britain. Until recently the Scouts learnt about the history through tours of the surviving wartime installations and once a year access for the general public at Open House events. Again unsupervised access to operational areas
The last event programmed to be held at the Centre is a Flight Simulator experience day on Monday 30 August. Media visitors are welcome on that occasion.
For enquiries please DM
bigginsac is offline Report Post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: GLASGOW
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LBHA, many thanks. Nice, concise response, which certainly gives a much cleaner and somewhat fairer, picture of the situation. I have been involved, of late, in trying to save a situation, at a large International airport, where a peppercorn lease was in place for a Flying Club. I, once again in my life, have been astonished at how events can drift so out of control, with both sides involved in an eventual melee. Always, somewhere, the actual facts lie. I hope it works out for all concerned.
