Is 7k over the top for Cessna Annual ?
Thread Starter
Is 7k over the top for Cessna Annual ?
Just had the invoice for our Cessna 172 Annual at £7000, which for only a hundred hours since the last one, seems to be well over the top.
The charges were 3K for Inspection and Labour, 1K for Magneto, 1K VAT, and the rest made up of small parts (nuts and washers, tyre etc.).
My bet is that if they did the Annual again, one week later, the cost would be the same again. Also every time they look at it, the plane comes back in a worse condition, with some other fault, which only becomes apparent when being flown.
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The charges were 3K for Inspection and Labour, 1K for Magneto, 1K VAT, and the rest made up of small parts (nuts and washers, tyre etc.).
My bet is that if they did the Annual again, one week later, the cost would be the same again. Also every time they look at it, the plane comes back in a worse condition, with some other fault, which only becomes apparent when being flown.
.
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Hi scifi,
Is this the first time this particular maintenance organisation has had a look at the aircraft? Are you living near a big city/conurbation where costs are higher then elsewhere?
In my experience, some maintenance organisations tend to 'nurse' aircraft in a misguided effort to save owners money. Then, when you switch to someone new, they go through the aircraft with a fine-tooth comb and you wind up with a big bill. It takes several years to build up a mutual trust between maintenance and owners, sometimes never happens!
Many aircraft don't reach double figures between checks, but still wind up with a big bill, as mandatory lifed items need replacing. Also, lack of use seems to throw up more problems than with frequently used aircraft. I know what you mean about coming out with more faults than it went in with; put it down to things being disturbed that were about to go wrong and maintenance has tipped them over the edge.
The relationship I now have with our organisation means that they charge relatively little for the Annual, on the proviso that relatively minor issues are dealt with on a drip-feed basis. For instance, we've just had the bearing on the trim on a PA28 replaced; within tolerances but changing it now has probably staved off wear in the stabilator bearing. We took the opportunity to have a nearly worn tyre changed at the same time, saving later down-time.
All that said, if you're not already a member, join AOPA. They have a maintenance code of practice which is worth looking at.
Finally, you're the customer. If you think you're not getting good service, go elsewhere.
TOO
Is this the first time this particular maintenance organisation has had a look at the aircraft? Are you living near a big city/conurbation where costs are higher then elsewhere?
In my experience, some maintenance organisations tend to 'nurse' aircraft in a misguided effort to save owners money. Then, when you switch to someone new, they go through the aircraft with a fine-tooth comb and you wind up with a big bill. It takes several years to build up a mutual trust between maintenance and owners, sometimes never happens!
Many aircraft don't reach double figures between checks, but still wind up with a big bill, as mandatory lifed items need replacing. Also, lack of use seems to throw up more problems than with frequently used aircraft. I know what you mean about coming out with more faults than it went in with; put it down to things being disturbed that were about to go wrong and maintenance has tipped them over the edge.
The relationship I now have with our organisation means that they charge relatively little for the Annual, on the proviso that relatively minor issues are dealt with on a drip-feed basis. For instance, we've just had the bearing on the trim on a PA28 replaced; within tolerances but changing it now has probably staved off wear in the stabilator bearing. We took the opportunity to have a nearly worn tyre changed at the same time, saving later down-time.
All that said, if you're not already a member, join AOPA. They have a maintenance code of practice which is worth looking at.
Finally, you're the customer. If you think you're not getting good service, go elsewhere.
TOO
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Is it a dual mag in it? And was it a new mag or was it having the 500 hr inspection?
Rough idea of prices, I take it the labour was already under the other part of the bill, what about the core deposit that is refunded on the old mag when it is returned to the supplier?
https://www.airpart.co.uk/page/kelly-aerospace-magnetos
Rough idea of prices, I take it the labour was already under the other part of the bill, what about the core deposit that is refunded on the old mag when it is returned to the supplier?
https://www.airpart.co.uk/page/kelly-aerospace-magnetos
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Big advantage operating LAA, IIRC our last permit renewal was about £350, we did a lot ourselves which you cannot really do with non LAA aircraft so there was our time as well - but that was actually quite nice to do and IMHO the time was offset by getting to know the aircraft more and knowing a good job had been done.
No reason why you can't cut costs by doing the simple tasks yourself. A monkey could pull panels off, take seats out, drain oil, change filters, oil linkages and hinges etc, etc. It doesn't require a licensed engineer and often isn't done by one. Do you do your own 50hr checks?
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7k for an annual??? What does the work sheet say, what they did - this may well be a complete initial SID inspection plus new magnetos plus annual. Annuals for a 172 are usually about £700, not 7,000, but with a full corrosion inspection on a bird never subject to it, can be right.
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Does the UK have the equivalent of the FAA "owner assisted" annual? Where you can hire a certified guy, usually a sole trader to come to where your plane is hangared and do the annual with you. He/she does all the compression/timing checks and any stuff requiring an experienced eye, the owner does all the grunt work like removing inspection plates, panels, seats, floors and cowling. Oiling and greasing, and any jobs that involve being a contortionist or getting covered in shyte.
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My annuals normally run about £300 for the inspectors time, a couple of hundred quid for consumables, oil, fluids, filters, hoses etc which I buy in bulk from Aircraftspruce. I also bought this spark plug cleaner and tester. ( https://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?id=SPCT100A ) which was a good investment and a engine timing tester, cylinder compression gauge and a cable tension gauge. I spend about 3 full days before the inspector arrives stripping everything down lubing and cleaning, and verifying everything on the airframe, prop and engine manufacturers 100hr checklist.
The added benefit in addition to saving some money is as a guy that knows SFA about mechanics I really get to know and understand plane and its systems.
The added benefit in addition to saving some money is as a guy that knows SFA about mechanics I really get to know and understand plane and its systems.
Last edited by piperboy84; 19th Aug 2016 at 21:24.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the many replies. I think that any machine that requires 7k spending on Engineering works in a year must either be a very unreliable machine, or we are being taken to the cleaners by this CAA approved mtce organisation.
Previous Quote... £2k for 'nuts and washers, tyre etc'? Really?
Yes, when looking at the minor items, it seems as if every nut and washer that they put a spanner to was replaced with a new item, and that engine ducting, which was replaced last year was replaced again this year.
The one instrument which they found had a minor fault, was replaced by a similar (old) unit, which has now proven to be faulty but in a different way.
Previous Quote... £2k for 'nuts and washers, tyre etc'? Really?
Yes, when looking at the minor items, it seems as if every nut and washer that they put a spanner to was replaced with a new item, and that engine ducting, which was replaced last year was replaced again this year.
The one instrument which they found had a minor fault, was replaced by a similar (old) unit, which has now proven to be faulty but in a different way.
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I would say you have been well and truly ripped off, my annual including radio annual at the most has been £650. It usually averages £450 plus any parts that need replacing, with me doing all the leg work before the licensed engineer completes his inspection, then I put it all back together.
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Just had the invoice for our Cessna 172 Annual at £7000, which for only a hundred hours since the last one, seems to be well over the top.
The charges were 3K for Inspection and Labour, 1K for Magneto, 1K VAT, and the rest made up of small parts (nuts and washers, tyre etc.).
The charges were 3K for Inspection and Labour, 1K for Magneto, 1K VAT, and the rest made up of small parts (nuts and washers, tyre etc.).
I trust that every pilot and owner genuinely would like every aviation service provider to go home at the end of the work day feeling fairly compensated for their time and overhead. I go to the dentist (who does an excellent job every time), and wonder to myself at paying around $250 per hour for her time. But then as I sit there and look around, I remind myself that out of what I pay her, she is paying onward for three other support staff, the office space and equipment, and enough material and tools at her fingertips to assure that once I sit down, the work can be completed on time. Then, that rate seems quite reasonable!
The maintenance hangar is very similar: There is very likely a staff overhead in record keeping, regulatory compliance, and parts support, as well has the cost of the hangar and insurance - you're paying for your small portion of all of that while your plane is in there, and their hands are in it.
Honestly, I have not heard of any aircraft maintenance shop rate local to me which is as high as the $110/hr shop rate of my local VW dealer! And, the aircraft maintainer generally has to be very much more resourceful in stocking and sourcing parts for a very much more broad range of aircraft models and years.
For private owners and pilots, flying is recreation - non required. However, the people who work on the planes devote their entire working day to the task, and that is their living. Expect to be fairly treated with quality work, as a customer - but expect to pay fairly for what you receive too! If you enjoy the service at the restaurant, do you happily pay the bill? Do you offer to tip a bit more on top of that? Aircraft ownership is not the place to find a deal in life!
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Flying an old GA spam can in the UK is no longer viable for most people now due to the maintenance costs on very these very old aircraft. The majority of us changed over to LAA permit aircraft many years ago.