UK poor for Night Flying - HELP!!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 74
Posts: 1,684
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
rnzoli,
Thank you for the clarification. I accept that a SEP engine failure at night has a higher risk of a fatal outcome than a daytime failure. However, I still think that an aircraft certificated to fly at night (i.e. Cessna, Piper singles) with a Lycoming or Continental engine, provided you don't run out of fuel and operate in appropriate weather conditions is very unlikely to result in an en-route accident. Thus, I convince myself that my biggest worry is re-positioning the aircraft the following day, not that I'm about to die. Something about self-fulfilling prophesies?
TOO
Thank you for the clarification. I accept that a SEP engine failure at night has a higher risk of a fatal outcome than a daytime failure. However, I still think that an aircraft certificated to fly at night (i.e. Cessna, Piper singles) with a Lycoming or Continental engine, provided you don't run out of fuel and operate in appropriate weather conditions is very unlikely to result in an en-route accident. Thus, I convince myself that my biggest worry is re-positioning the aircraft the following day, not that I'm about to die. Something about self-fulfilling prophesies?
TOO
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: York
Age: 53
Posts: 797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its a joke. The last two guys that needed night rating in a rush as they were about to start a CPL course ended up going to abroad.
PCL appears to be really slow to catch on in the UK.
PCL appears to be really slow to catch on in the UK.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem lies with the CAA who will not allow pilot controlled lighting and insist that an ATC must be on duty to permit night landings at licenced airfields.
Unlicenced fields have fewer regulations and a handfull have lighting but there is no guarantee that the installation meets any standards or safety rules.
Unlicenced fields have fewer regulations and a handfull have lighting but there is no guarantee that the installation meets any standards or safety rules.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Strathaven Airfield
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How is that a problem?
Surely the lights can be on "out of hours"?
There are airfields that are only licensed at weekends, for example.
And then there are quite a few - such as Fife - that are now unlicensed.
Dare I suggest that lights, the maintenance of them to a given standard and even the leccy to power them are a cost which people have historically been reluctant to pay through landing fees - because you don;t pay in other countries, so why pay here?
Surely the lights can be on "out of hours"?
There are airfields that are only licensed at weekends, for example.
And then there are quite a few - such as Fife - that are now unlicensed.
Dare I suggest that lights, the maintenance of them to a given standard and even the leccy to power them are a cost which people have historically been reluctant to pay through landing fees - because you don;t pay in other countries, so why pay here?
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LHBS
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh, no, just me being the usual chicken-sh!t coward. Night flying has similar incident rate as daytime flying (e.g., the engine doesn't know if it's day or night), only the consequences are more serious, i.e., fatality rate per incident. So as you say, the correct strategy is to stay out of incidents during night flights altogether, with absolutely thorough preparations. Must be ready even for extremes, e.g., a small misfiring at the beginning of a takeoff roll is not a huge issue during the day, you give it a few seconds to pick up RPM, but at night, the slightest deviation from expected behavior better result in aborting / diverting / precautionary landing. That goes for everything, weather, instruments, fuel consumption, navigation etc. Prevention is the key, becase the options are very very limited when something eventually happens.
However the fantastic view is absolutely worthwhile all those preparations and conservative decision-making
However the fantastic view is absolutely worthwhile all those preparations and conservative decision-making
I remember doing the minimum amount of SEP night hours for my CPL. The instructions were to fly the circuits at 2,000’ AGL and set up for glide approaches well into the runway (it was a long one).
That might sound a bit like overkill but there were literally hundreds of people doing the same training, so over the course of a year the risk exposure was substantial.
I’ve never flown a single at night again but I have done it in gliders!
That might sound a bit like overkill but there were literally hundreds of people doing the same training, so over the course of a year the risk exposure was substantial.
I’ve never flown a single at night again but I have done it in gliders!
Sorry, no photo as it was very very dark (African night). The only instrument I could see was the GPS as it was backlit, although I could reflect a bit of light onto the panel if I held my hand in front of it. It went well until I was about 20km out from the airfield and the first lightning bolt from an unexpected cunim hit not far away. Landed in quite gusty conditions.
I won’t claim any originality as night gliding (by moonlight) has been going on for a long time. They were quite keen on it in South America for a while, for some reason. Also, my night return was a bit spontaneous: I made the decision to carry on as the light faded because I was well over glide to my destination and it had runway lights. No moon, though, and it gets dark quickly in the Tropics...
I won’t claim any originality as night gliding (by moonlight) has been going on for a long time. They were quite keen on it in South America for a while, for some reason. Also, my night return was a bit spontaneous: I made the decision to carry on as the light faded because I was well over glide to my destination and it had runway lights. No moon, though, and it gets dark quickly in the Tropics...
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LHBS
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, Africa, that explains Stronger thermals, dryer air (less clouds, higher base) and a quicker transition from day to night lend themselves for "stretching the glide" into the nighttime. At least you don't worry about an engine failure. Wasn't the absence of landing light a little inconvenient during the landing?
Stronger thermals, dryer air (less clouds, higher base) and a quicker transition from day to night lend themselves for "stretching the glide" into the nighttime. At least you don't worry about an engine failure. Wasn't the absence of landing light a little inconvenient during the landing?
Wasn't the absence of landing light a little inconvenient during the landing?
