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Solent Collaborative Airspace Trial

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Solent Collaborative Airspace Trial

Old 6th Jul 2016, 09:56
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Solent Collaborative Airspace Trial

Has anyone seen any details about this so called Solent Collaborative Airspace Trial ? It seems to have been promulgated with no consultation and will be a bit of an inconvenience (to put it mildly) to many private fliers

Andy H
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 12:10
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there is a thread on flyer forum.

seems they want you to use their listening squawk/frequency over a wider area, ie over IoW and haining island and upto bullingdon cross north.

so you'll end up jumping around between Farnborough west/them.

I guess if ga pilots were better at keeping out of CAS it wouldn't happen!!
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 13:16
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I don't agree that it will be an inconvenience - when operating in the area you should be wearing the listening squawk or be talking to Solent. That is the best practice way of flying in this country as it is good to have a second pair of"eyes" on the ground to stop you straying too close to CAS. How hard is it to dial into 120.225 and wear 0011? you don't even have to talk to anyone!

The trial is meant to reduce infringements but I am struggling to see how. It is "suggested" that pilots contact Solent or use 0011. It is not mandatory so I'm struggling with the point. What is the success measure?
The CAA have apparently been to GA airfields to talk to them about the trial but they haven't been to mine. Considering the trial commences on 01/08, I have seen little detail.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 14:11
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It seems to me though that if you are north you will already be/should be talking to Farnborough west who should be able to give you a poke if you look like busting solent, so why listen to them? if you are flying mid week and heading west you'll be wanting to talk to boscomb at the same time as listening to solent whilst leaving Farnborough west...

the IoW bit makes sense, not so sure about the rest to be honest.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 16:00
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If you want an actual service, then talk to the LARS provider for the area. You will then be wearing their squawk and the Solent controllers will see that you are talking to Farnb, Boscombe etc. Then if they want to talk to you they lift the phone to that provider.
The listening squawks do next to nothing for the pilots using them. You get no service whatsoever and no information on potentially conflicting traffic, but in most cases you have to listen to the continuous radio traffic from the aircraft inside CAS. They're exclusively for the convenience of ATC.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 16:55
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It would be nice to know what exactly is being discussed. Any (www) pointers to text and facts?
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 17:51
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The AIC is due out tomorrow according to the people who are posting on Flyer.

I don't think enforced or encouraged Listening Squawks will end infringments. My thoughts are that infringements are caused by navigation errors, plain mistakes in planning or by people simply not checking the NOTAMs. If you are showing your registration on the radar display (as you will using Mode S), then a Listening Squawk is a good idea if someone is watching and can call you up by registration to turn away. That doesn't address the problem of people not reading the Notams and busting the Red Arrows display.
Anyway, I am waiting to read the AIC and see what it says as I think this is the beginning of a trend.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 19:41
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In my opinion the listening squawk idea is complicated overkill. In the USA everyone flying outside of controlled airspace tunes to Unicom. Why do we need so many different frequencies ?.
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Old 6th Jul 2016, 20:33
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Infringements of CAS would be much less likely if the carriage and use of GPS was compulsory. Its being done with 8.33.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 00:53
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then a Listening Squawk is a good idea if someone is watching and can call you up by registration to turn away.
I don't expect to be turned away from CAS simply because I'm flying towards it.
it is good to have a second pair of "eyes" on the ground to stop you straying too close to CAS
I expect to be able to get just as close to it as I like.
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 14:47
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It would be nice to know what exactly is being discussed. Any (www) pointers to text and facts?
Have a look here - AIC Y061/2016
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Old 7th Jul 2016, 15:11
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I don't agree that it will be an inconvenience - when operating in the area you should be wearing the listening squawk or be talking to Solent. That is the best practice way of flying in this country as it is good to have a second pair of"eyes" on the ground to stop you straying too close to CAS. How hard is it to dial into 120.225 and wear 0011? you don't even have to talk to anyone!
(my bold). Why SHOULD you? It's Class G....
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Old 9th Jul 2016, 18:53
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Originally Posted by Camargue View Post
It seems to me though that if you are north you will already be/should be talking to Farnborough west who should be able to give you a poke if you look like busting solent, so why listen to them? if you are flying mid week and heading west you'll be wanting to talk to boscomb at the same time as listening to solent whilst leaving Farnborough west...

the IoW bit makes sense, not so sure about the rest to be honest.
Such coments make my teeth itch - should be able to give you a poke..... As PIC you and you alone are responsible for your navigation, just wonder how many pilots bimble blithely onwards, blundering through CAS and then wondering why they weren't advised cos the Controller was doing something else....
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Old 10th Jul 2016, 23:42
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I operate from a farm strip that is outside of the Solent zone but will come under the trial area, I am not transponder equipped so just tune to Solent as I climb out, if Im'e going somewhere I talk to them but I often don't because my flight will remain local. I have heard Solent blind calling a contact that radar shows as infringing or about to infringe, without reply, so I believe that by being on frequency should be good enough if I got it wrong.
What I think is bad is the CAA guide http://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/S ... ace-trial/ which shows a modified section of chart with the new zone and text saying SFC-BASE OF CONTROLLED AIRSPACE but this text has completely obliterated the line marking the Solent CTA at its southern edge.
I know its just a guide but someone not familiar with the area might use it innocently and end up in trouble, seems shoddy to me.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 14:43
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Ok "SHOULD" was probably the wrong word hobbit. You cannot deny that it is best practice to talk to an ANSP or use a listening squawk if near their airspace - especially Solent as the layout is fairly confusing if you are not used to flying around it. I do understand that you don't have to but why wouldn't you?! All it takes is a slight navigation error and you have infringed -wouldn't you rather have eyes on the ground looking out for you? Same as if you have an emergency, it's better to be talking to someone.

My opinion of this trial is that it will not reduce infringements. Better training and awareness of controlled airspace would.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 15:38
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Ok "SHOULD" was probably the wrong word hobbit. You cannot deny that it is best practice to talk to an ANSP or use a listening squawk if near their airspace - especially Solent as the layout is fairly confusing if you are not used to flying around it. I do understand that you don't have to but why wouldn't you?! All it takes is a slight navigation error and you have infringed -wouldn't you rather have eyes on the ground looking out for you? Same as if you have an emergency, it's better to be talking to someone.
Non radio aircraft outside CAS don't, and can't, talk to anyone, and probably wouldn't wish to anyway.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 15:47
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Originally Posted by flybymike View Post
Non radio aircraft outside CAS don't, and can't, talk to anyone, and probably wouldn't wish to anyway.
That goes without saying...

My point is, if you have the facility to talk to someone or alert them of your presence, why wouldn't you?!
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 16:20
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A lot of people enjoy the peace and quiet.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 19:55
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Originally Posted by flybymike View Post
A lot of people enjoy the peace and quiet.
Not talking or even listening out is fine, but if so equipped, please select the transponder to "Alt" mode. TCAS equipped aircraft (such as most modern IFRr equipped rotary wing aircraft like the one I fly) are alerted to your position and avoid you far more easily, probably even without you being aware.
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Old 11th Jul 2016, 21:41
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Originally Posted by destinationsky View Post
Ok "SHOULD" was probably the wrong word hobbit. You cannot deny that it is best practice to talk to an ANSP or use a listening squawk if near their airspace - especially Solent as the layout is fairly confusing if you are not used to flying around it. I do understand that you don't have to but why wouldn't you?! All it takes is a slight navigation error and you have infringed -wouldn't you rather have eyes on the ground looking out for you? Same as if you have an emergency, it's better to be talking to someone.

My opinion of this trial is that it will not reduce infringements. Better training and awareness of controlled airspace would.
Where do you draw the line? Should all non-radio aircraft be banned, then? I don't deny that a basic service can be a bonus; however sometimes there is simply nothing wrong with not talking to anyone in Class G.

By your logic, we should all be getting a Deconfliction service, all the time. Safer, right?
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