Going from Cessna 152 to 172
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Fantastic replies, thanks every one, some great advice I will definitely keep in mind!
It definitely sounds like the right aircraft for taking family and friends up and tour the area.
I think to save on cost, and when I'm flying solo I will try and get onto the Tecnam P2002 the club has, touch more expensive than the c152 but I'd like to give stick controls a go, I remember when I was an Air Cadet and flew in the Grob 115 Tutor I did enjoy using the stick controls.
Question: When did they stop installing the 40 degree drag flaps? Just so I know which ones the aircraft has.
Thanks again for all your wise advice!
It definitely sounds like the right aircraft for taking family and friends up and tour the area.
I think to save on cost, and when I'm flying solo I will try and get onto the Tecnam P2002 the club has, touch more expensive than the c152 but I'd like to give stick controls a go, I remember when I was an Air Cadet and flew in the Grob 115 Tutor I did enjoy using the stick controls.
Question: When did they stop installing the 40 degree drag flaps? Just so I know which ones the aircraft has.
Thanks again for all your wise advice!
SS,
You'll love the Tecnam.
Wikipedia tells me that the 30 degree flaps came in 1981 with the 172P.
I also see there was a 100 lb increase in gross weight, so my previous comment requires modification - with full (normal) tanks, you could have four 165 lb people.
You'll love the Tecnam.
Wikipedia tells me that the 30 degree flaps came in 1981 with the 172P.
I also see there was a 100 lb increase in gross weight, so my previous comment requires modification - with full (normal) tanks, you could have four 165 lb people.
One thing I will say about the 172, they vary quite a lot between aircraft, even the same model. I've flown several M and N models which had the 180hp STC which restricts flaps to 30 degrees despite them shipping with 40 degrees (and 160hp) from the factory. My advice is to thoroughly read the Flight Manual and any supplements to get an idea of what might otherwise catch you out.
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$0.02 worth:
Back in my instructor days, I found that pilots initially learning on the 150 or 152 found the 172 a piece of cake, a bit more stable and only slightly heavier controls.
The opposite transition 172 > 152 was more challenging; student is likely to overcontrol for a while. Noticeable, but no big deal, either way.
The bigger deal is entry/exit. 172 Front seat loads first with seats slid aft; then slide forward so the rear seats can be loaded.
Back in my instructor days, I found that pilots initially learning on the 150 or 152 found the 172 a piece of cake, a bit more stable and only slightly heavier controls.
The opposite transition 172 > 152 was more challenging; student is likely to overcontrol for a while. Noticeable, but no big deal, either way.
The bigger deal is entry/exit. 172 Front seat loads first with seats slid aft; then slide forward so the rear seats can be loaded.
It's always subjective but the 172 felt,to me, a bit "nose heavy" on landing by comparison with the 150. As the earlier 172s are prone to nose-wheel shimmy,it's not a bad idea to keep the weight off the nosewheel as much as possible and definitely don't arrive nosewheel first. Otherwise they do just what it says on the tin.
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In all Cessnas larger than the 150/152 pay attention to positive seat locking. The aircraft should have a secondary seat restraint, but some do not. Understand what the plane you are flying has, and how to use it.
If no secondary restraint system, be very certain that you've locked the seat, and it is locked on the track.
If there is a little silver lever in a black housing inboard of the inboard pilot's seat track, that's good, but now know that you have to release that to get the seat back to exit [in a hurry].
It could also have an inertial reel seat belt up under the seat = normal operation.
Or, if a very new 172, new tracks which are much more safe.
Just understand what you have and how best to use it.
If no secondary restraint system, be very certain that you've locked the seat, and it is locked on the track.
If there is a little silver lever in a black housing inboard of the inboard pilot's seat track, that's good, but now know that you have to release that to get the seat back to exit [in a hurry].
It could also have an inertial reel seat belt up under the seat = normal operation.
Or, if a very new 172, new tracks which are much more safe.
Just understand what you have and how best to use it.
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As DAR says, know how to operate what you have. Read the POH. I'm always amazed how many pilot's have never read the POH of the aircraft they fly; just going on received wisdom. I like reading POH's being of a technical bent but there's no reason for anyone not to have an hour looking through it.
As for the difference there's not much TBH. Half an hour in the cct should be sufficient. You will notice that you need rudder on the take off roll to keep straight and also in the climb. Funnily enough I learned in a 172 and then converted to a 152 later. I was that used to putting a bit of pressure on my right foot on the take off roll that I started to drift off the runway in the 152. Soon corrected and not forgotten.
Edit: By the way the 40 degree 'barn door' flap setting on the older 172's is fantastic, that extra ten degrees is like running into a marshmallow when you select it. One of the one's I fly is 'K' version, a '68 and it is superb at steep approaches into short fields with obstacles.
As for the difference there's not much TBH. Half an hour in the cct should be sufficient. You will notice that you need rudder on the take off roll to keep straight and also in the climb. Funnily enough I learned in a 172 and then converted to a 152 later. I was that used to putting a bit of pressure on my right foot on the take off roll that I started to drift off the runway in the 152. Soon corrected and not forgotten.
Edit: By the way the 40 degree 'barn door' flap setting on the older 172's is fantastic, that extra ten degrees is like running into a marshmallow when you select it. One of the one's I fly is 'K' version, a '68 and it is superb at steep approaches into short fields with obstacles.
Last edited by thing; 16th Jun 2016 at 19:07.
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Human factors issues
Lots of good advice above about flying the aircraft but little on the new problem of passenger care.
Once you are checked out on the 172 you will find that you will be asked to fly more passengers, leaving the loading & aircraft performance issues aside ( others above have offered advice on this ) you will be faced with people who have never flown in a light aircraft before.
You must give them a brief on how to exit the aircraft in case of emergency but this brief must not frighten them.
If you are flying during the winter you need to consider the ground you are flying over and how you and your passengers are going to survive if you end up on the ground in a remote location.
Survival preparations need to be appropriate, and these can range from a mobile phone for a flight over Sussex in the summer to very walm clothing, PLB, flares and a covered life raft for The Scotish highlands in the winter ( the life raft is a very good instant tent ).
Occasionally passengers may feel sick have a few sick bags available but don't dwel on the subject and don't let passenger illness interfere with your flying of the aircraft.
Fly the aircraft in a considerate way and avoid high angles of bank and excessive pitch movements.
Above all remember that you as commander of the aircraft are morally & leagaly responsible for the well being of your passengers from the time they step airside to the time they walk out of the operational part of the airfield.
Once you are checked out on the 172 you will find that you will be asked to fly more passengers, leaving the loading & aircraft performance issues aside ( others above have offered advice on this ) you will be faced with people who have never flown in a light aircraft before.
You must give them a brief on how to exit the aircraft in case of emergency but this brief must not frighten them.
If you are flying during the winter you need to consider the ground you are flying over and how you and your passengers are going to survive if you end up on the ground in a remote location.
Survival preparations need to be appropriate, and these can range from a mobile phone for a flight over Sussex in the summer to very walm clothing, PLB, flares and a covered life raft for The Scotish highlands in the winter ( the life raft is a very good instant tent ).
Occasionally passengers may feel sick have a few sick bags available but don't dwel on the subject and don't let passenger illness interfere with your flying of the aircraft.
Fly the aircraft in a considerate way and avoid high angles of bank and excessive pitch movements.
Above all remember that you as commander of the aircraft are morally & leagaly responsible for the well being of your passengers from the time they step airside to the time they walk out of the operational part of the airfield.
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Great advice from A&C!
It reminds me of my very early days flying, where I would invite my friends and neighbours to come along. My neighbour eagerly agreed, asking if his aunt could come along. Sure!
His aunt was a "little person". Though in her sixties, somewhat less than four feet tall. Charming lady! The new thing for me to think about was 45 minutes into the flight, when he said to me that she was having trouble seeing out the window in the back seat - would it be okay if she stood up for the rest of the flight. Hmm, I had not thought about that before! It was a very smooth day, and wanting to be pleasing, I agreed, with the proviso that he hold her [happily robust] trousers belt the whole time, and that she not lean against the door. She enjoyed the rest of the flight very well, and belted up for landing.
Yes, be attentive to your passengers first and above all but safety of flight itself. As level and gentle as possible. No goofing around with anyone in the back seat at all. If a pax really wants the "fun flight", and you think they are up for a few turns, take them separately later.
By the time a pax finally tells you they are not feeling well, they are well into it, and you have a problem to overcome.
It reminds me of my very early days flying, where I would invite my friends and neighbours to come along. My neighbour eagerly agreed, asking if his aunt could come along. Sure!
His aunt was a "little person". Though in her sixties, somewhat less than four feet tall. Charming lady! The new thing for me to think about was 45 minutes into the flight, when he said to me that she was having trouble seeing out the window in the back seat - would it be okay if she stood up for the rest of the flight. Hmm, I had not thought about that before! It was a very smooth day, and wanting to be pleasing, I agreed, with the proviso that he hold her [happily robust] trousers belt the whole time, and that she not lean against the door. She enjoyed the rest of the flight very well, and belted up for landing.
Yes, be attentive to your passengers first and above all but safety of flight itself. As level and gentle as possible. No goofing around with anyone in the back seat at all. If a pax really wants the "fun flight", and you think they are up for a few turns, take them separately later.
By the time a pax finally tells you they are not feeling well, they are well into it, and you have a problem to overcome.
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When I had 45 hours, just before taking PPL skill test, I moved from Diamond Katana DV20 to C172 and have successfully completed checkride for PPL after 5 hours on C172 (it could be even shorter, as instructor said, but I had to make 150 NM cross country flight).
So, it should not be a problem for you.
So, it should not be a problem for you.
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Any aeroplane which has a component called "Land-O-Matic" (yes, really!) is going to be easy to fly and to land. The 172 is the ultimate tame pussycat.
If you can fly any aeroplane, or perhaps even if you can only drive a Ford Mondeo, you can convert to the 172 in well under an hour. The only thing you have to learn is the sight picture to expect in the correct landing attitude.
I concur with those who caution against overloading or getting abaft the CofG limit.
In my foolish yoof I committed that sin, unforgivably, on a semi-legal charter from Sunderland to BEAcopters apron at Dyce in the early 1970s. It was in the old version of the 172, the one with no rear window and no electric flaps. A doggy old engine coming up to the end of its legal life and a propellor whose leading edge was like a hillwalkers terrain profile map.
My three pax turned out to be massively huge riggers with absurdly heavy suitcases. Grossly illegal and massively stupid of me to agree to take them. I had the rear seat pax hold all three bags on their laps, but I knew, without plotting the W&B, that both W and B were hugely out of limits.
Takeoff was alarming, but the field, which is now a car factory, had a bit of a ski jump at its further end and I scraped over the hedge with the stall warner making its baleful squeak. I had to mollify my front passenger by saying that the noise indicated full power.
At Aberdeen I was cleared to land number one, with one in the circuit on the downwind leg. Once established on finals I saw that the 150 (from the local flying club whose name I shall not say lest I summon the Devil) had cut in front of me. ATC told me, not him, to go around. It took me fully 300' to arrest the descent and pretty much half the runway length to get a bit of climb out of the thing. My front passenger was mightily relieved when he heard the stall warner in that go-around! He did ask why I was pushing, instead of pulling, and frantically shoving the trim wheel,when trying to get away from the ground. I was too busy to think of an answer to that one.
Lesson: never overstep the upper or righthand edge of the W&B polygon in a 172. She'll probably forgive you if you do, but one day she won't. That's why we call these pieces of metal "she".
If you can fly any aeroplane, or perhaps even if you can only drive a Ford Mondeo, you can convert to the 172 in well under an hour. The only thing you have to learn is the sight picture to expect in the correct landing attitude.
I concur with those who caution against overloading or getting abaft the CofG limit.
In my foolish yoof I committed that sin, unforgivably, on a semi-legal charter from Sunderland to BEAcopters apron at Dyce in the early 1970s. It was in the old version of the 172, the one with no rear window and no electric flaps. A doggy old engine coming up to the end of its legal life and a propellor whose leading edge was like a hillwalkers terrain profile map.
My three pax turned out to be massively huge riggers with absurdly heavy suitcases. Grossly illegal and massively stupid of me to agree to take them. I had the rear seat pax hold all three bags on their laps, but I knew, without plotting the W&B, that both W and B were hugely out of limits.
Takeoff was alarming, but the field, which is now a car factory, had a bit of a ski jump at its further end and I scraped over the hedge with the stall warner making its baleful squeak. I had to mollify my front passenger by saying that the noise indicated full power.
At Aberdeen I was cleared to land number one, with one in the circuit on the downwind leg. Once established on finals I saw that the 150 (from the local flying club whose name I shall not say lest I summon the Devil) had cut in front of me. ATC told me, not him, to go around. It took me fully 300' to arrest the descent and pretty much half the runway length to get a bit of climb out of the thing. My front passenger was mightily relieved when he heard the stall warner in that go-around! He did ask why I was pushing, instead of pulling, and frantically shoving the trim wheel,when trying to get away from the ground. I was too busy to think of an answer to that one.
Lesson: never overstep the upper or righthand edge of the W&B polygon in a 172. She'll probably forgive you if you do, but one day she won't. That's why we call these pieces of metal "she".
... and you no longer have to rub shoulders with your instructor!
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The reason one usually moves up to a C172 is to fly more than one other person around. Which means, especially at this time of year, that it's an excellent moment to become intimately familiar with the intricacies of density altitude.
C172s can carry a lot more weight than C152s can. Whether they can carry it out of ground effect, or above the trees at the far end of the runway, is another matter entirely.
Don't just get a check-out. Have your instructor round up a couple of pals; load the aircraft to MTOW or close to it; and practice taking off from a nice long runway with clear approaches on a warmer-than-average day. Believe me, you'll learn a lot that's well worth knowing.
C172s can carry a lot more weight than C152s can. Whether they can carry it out of ground effect, or above the trees at the far end of the runway, is another matter entirely.
Don't just get a check-out. Have your instructor round up a couple of pals; load the aircraft to MTOW or close to it; and practice taking off from a nice long runway with clear approaches on a warmer-than-average day. Believe me, you'll learn a lot that's well worth knowing.
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This is sounding lik a conversion to a 747. It's not complicated, just listen to your instructor, strap the aircraft to your arse and go and fly it. Then enjoy yourself.
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Not really a problem. Almost all of my C172 hours were hot and high in South Africa where the density altitude can top 10000 feet on a summer afternoon. The farm strips are longer than those in the UK but in general the 172 behaves as per the POH provided you lean it properly before takeoff and pay attention to weight and balance.
Yes, you need more runway than at sea level but the information in the POH is accurate, you just have to pay attention to the limits.
The 172 was designed to carry 2 adults and 2 children, if you want more load and better short field performance rather use a 182.
Yes, you need more runway than at sea level but the information in the POH is accurate, you just have to pay attention to the limits.
The 172 was designed to carry 2 adults and 2 children, if you want more load and better short field performance rather use a 182.
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Not really a problem...the information in the POH is accurate, you just have to pay attention to the limits.
Years ago I was taking off from a high-'n'-hot airfield in the mountains of New Mexico in a typical example of the breed, with the density altitude at 9,100'. I was well below gross weight, fortunately. She came off the ground easily enough, but just didn't want to climb at all. A couple of miles down the road, still at haystack height, I saw some buzzards circling in a thermal, muscled them out of the way, and went up at 1,000 fpm until I'd put some distance between myself and the sandy-coloured stuff. If I hadn't leaned properly, or if I'd had another warm body in the back seat, God alone knows how things would have worked out.
According to the POH for the P model, at 10,000' and a 20C temp, max rate of climb is 175 fpm at gross weight. Not a lot of margin for error there—and again, remember that that's with a brand-new aircraft, perfect technique. With the somewhat clapped-out aerial conveyances given to most of us to fly, that may translate in real terms to 0 fpm.
Density altitude is greatly to be respected, I believe.