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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

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Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads)

Old 11th Jul 2017, 00:25
  #3761 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by brakedwell View Post
Where photos taken during the oceanic sectors on her "Around the World" flight?
Most certainly, but most people know what the 1st class seating in a Dreamliner looks like ;-)
Old 11th Jul 2017, 10:15
  #3762 (permalink)  
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OK, those Facebook screen grabs from Jay Sata say it all.

I thought maybe, just maybe she was going to do something honorable but it would appear it's same old, same old....

Wikipedia editing continues to support her but there is an interesting paragraph from someone on the 'talk' page of her entry which appears to have been ratified by Sam Rutherford. What is astounding is the flat refusal by wiki editors to accept facts as presented to them:
The Truth[edit]
I don't know how Wikipedia works but what I have written below is the truth. Take it or leave it as you wish...

Tracey Curtis-Taylor formed an idea to recreate a flight from Cape Town, South Africa to Goodwood, UK mirroring that of Lady Mary Heath’s. To raise funding for the trip she gained major sponsorship from Boeing Aircraft in the USA and Artemis Fund Managers in the UK. From the beginning, this was to be a solo flight as stated in numerous archived articles on Curtis-Taylor’s website (birdinabiplane.com), her sponsors press releases and the general media. To assist in this flight, her company hired the services of Sam Rutherford, an expert in sport and activity logistics for expeditions and part of the prepare2go group. At some point in the preparations, the team realised that the flight could not be performed solo. The flight took place between November 2013 and February 2014. A considerable amount of media coverage occurred and Ms Curtis-Taylor commenced a round of press, TV, radio and speaking engagements. At the same time, her company started planning another trip from the UK to Australia to take place from October 2015 to January 2016. This trip also started to be mentioned during the various engagements. With very few exceptions, the interviews and media coverage referred to her ‘solo’ Cape Town flight and the upcoming ‘solo’ Australian flight. During this time, Curtis-Taylor’s website continued to refer to the original flight as solo and Curtis-Taylor openly referred to it as ‘solo’ during her speaking engagements of which an example appears in the Wikipedia article. Rutherford had become aware of this coverage but out of professional courtesy, he decided that any denial of the status of the flights should come from Curtis-Taylor. However, he felt his hand was being forced when Curtis-Taylor started to receive awards for flying solo which he felt was simply unfair. He therefore wrote to Curtis-Taylor stating his concerns and asking her to take action. He heard nothing more and as awards and press coverage were increasing, he wrote again and stated he would have to make his feelings known publically unless she did so first. The only obvious reaction can be seen on archived web pages from Curtis-Taylor’s website at the time using the waybackmachine.org website. All previous references to her flying solo were removed. Rutherford then started to explain his position on aviation forums. These communications are all archived on Flyer Forum and PPRuNe. None state anything other than Curtis-Taylor was not flying solo and her co-pilot was Ewald Gritsch, the owner of the company which build her Stearman. Strangely, throughout the controversy, on TV reports and the documentary, Gritsch can be seen in the front cockpit of the aircraft yet this fact was never raised by observers at the time. As Rutherford’s accusations became more public, Curtis-Taylor made the first of four statements on her website, the essence of which was that she had never stated she flew ‘solo’ but that she was the ‘sole’ pilot. This caused a furore in the aviation world because there is no such definition of ‘sole’ pilot and the majority of people who had followed the story from the beginning had believed the flight to be solo. When they revisited archived material, the general view was that there had been a determined effort to deceive. Presently, there are a number of statements on the Curtis-Taylor site. The current situation is that Curtis-Taylor states she did not fly solo for at least 90% of the time she was in the aircraft. She further states that 80% of the time, she flew with Ewald Gritsch. She maintains, despite considerable evidence to the contrary, that this has been her position from the outset. In Ewald Gritsch’s statement, he agrees he was in the front-cockpit but states the aircraft is flown from the rear. This is incorrect. The aircraft is a trainer and since its launch in the 1940’s, it has always been possible to fly the aircraft from either cockpit. Curtis-Taylor suggests that the accusations against her are ‘anti-feminist’ and untrue. She further suggests that ‘she could have done more to correct misleading reports that made liberal use of the phrase “flying solo”.’ The obvious question is why didn’t she do this with the hundreds (literally) of articles from her sponsors, the press, TV media and her own website? I am not Sam Rutherford, I neither know him or have met him. I have no link to anyone involved in this issue. I am however, a pilot who has flown his first solo, first solo cross country, first solo night flight, first solo instrument flight and many first solo’s on complex types. Like other pilots, while I don’t wear the achievements on my sleeve, they mean a lot to me and I am intensely irritated that someone should attempt to pull the wool over the public’s eyes and be rewarded for it. As Rutherford has always stated, it’s just not fair. I now leave others to decide if the Wikipedia page on Tracey Curtis-Taylor is accurate.Veritasaviator (talk) 17:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

I am afraid most of this is original research and not allowed on wikipedia if you are not directly involved then none of what you say can be supported other than your own opinons. Wikipedia works on reliable sources (which do not include blogs and forums) not opinion or hearsay (refer Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth), thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 17:59, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
MilbourneOne Fully understand your comment but of course, while it is my opinion, it is also supported by references. The facts I state are very simply provable by looking at those references. The question is, do Wikipedia editors wish to continue to have the site reflect Curtis-Taylor as shown now or comment on the deceit. Ignoring the truth because of 'rules' is still just ignoring the truth.Veritasaviator (talk) 18:08, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
You need to provide sources for all your claims, not expect others to go and search for themselves, especially if you are hoping to change the content of the article. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:20, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
"""OK. Here's two. The first one from Curtis-Taylor's website in February 2015. Her site, her responsibility and the second, a clip from one of her speaker engagements where the words are directly from her: [2]Veritasaviator (talk) 18:27, 6 November 2016 (UTC)



Jump up ^ https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...ctual&IType=LA
Jump up ^ "Her solo open-cockpit biplane flight from Cape Town to Goodwood was the realisation of something beyond a dream.". Tracey Curtis-Taylor.
Jump up ^ "Tracey Curtis Taylor - PR Agency".
"""Martinevans123..two sources, both from Curtis-Taylor, stating that Cape Town to UK was a solo flight. Now read latest statements from Curtis-Taylor on Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker where she states they were not solo and advise me what more I need to do. Many thanksVeritasaviator (talk) 18:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Veritsaviator this page is for improving the article not for directing research (which we dont do), you need to tell us whats wrong in the article and then make a case with reliable references why something should be change/deleted/added. Wikipedia relies on what other sources say about things we dont synthesis the sources ourselves. Also youtube is not reliable, you need to find secondary sources to support interpretations of speeches. MilborneOne (talk) 18:47, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Oh and please dont use upper case it is considered to be shouting and bad manners, we are just trying to explain how wikipedia works so you can make a case, we are trying to help you here. MilborneOne (talk) 18:53, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
""MilbourneOne..I apologise for the block wording (not capitals) it is not my intention to 'shout' or be offensive. I am not a Wikipedia expert. Quite frankly, to refuse to accept a first person speech on Youtube in this instance is questionable and one can only assume you have some ulterior motive? The references stand to any reasonable persons scrutiny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Veritasaviator (talk • contribs) 19:05, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

That is called a personal attack on wikipedia (read WP:NPA) and can get you blocked from editing, perhaps consider withdrawing your remarks. The article has been modified in the last few hours that cover a lot of your comments, have a read and come back and tell us clearly what needs to be changed and we can help make the article balanced per the sources and with due weight to the issues, but consider how you treat others, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:10, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you are offended MilbourneOne..that is not my intention. My comments in my first statement stand and I have nothing further to add. If an encyclopedia is supposed to reflect the truth then what I have written and the quoted references will do so if incorporated. If a video of Curtis-Taylor speaking the words '..my solo flight from Cape Town..' is not good enough then I'm not sure what further proof will be acceptable. I have made my point for which I thank those who have read it and now I will move on.Veritasaviator (talk) 19:30, 6 November 2016 (UTC) OUT
My name is Sam Rutherford. I was there throughout, and everything posted by Veritasaviator is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:14, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 11:04
  #3763 (permalink)  
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That conversation is unreal. They won't accept TCT herself saying on video that she was solo as Primary Source. It beggars belief.
Old 11th Jul 2017, 18:29
  #3764 (permalink)  
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Let's play a game of Spot The Difference :-)
Thank you to the PPRUNER for the steer in the right direct. Images from TCTs Facebook page in 2016, and the newly photo-shopped image from the American Airpower Website.

Begs the question if the aircraft has yet been re-badged, surely a genuine image of The Spirit of Victory exists, so why resort to subterfuge... oh hang on...that's the norm for her and the team. What else has been digitally manipulated? Proves that you can believe NOTHING that is associated with this Round-the-galaxy flight.
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 18:57
  #3765 (permalink)  
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This looks like a more serious attempt.

Afghan-American female pilot seeks to inspire young women - ABC News
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Old 11th Jul 2017, 19:07
  #3766 (permalink)  
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If her epic almost "Round the World" flight was due to be completed on July 9th, why are there no press releases showing the Spirit of Infamy orbiting the Statue of Liberty before TCT receives a rapturous welcome at Republic Airport?

Last edited by brakedwell; 11th Jul 2017 at 19:26.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 15:00
  #3767 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Planet Basher View Post
Now that really is impressive.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 15:07
  #3768 (permalink)  
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Sorry, actually it isn't. She came to the US as a toddler - has lived there all her life. To all intents and purposes she's American...

How this is supposed to help Afghani women in Afghanistan is somewhat difficult to see.

Also, there have previously been Afghan female pilots in their air force - this is much more inspirational to young Afghans (of either gender). One here: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/27/po...lum/index.html

And a passing reference to two female helicopter pilots from 30+ years ago here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niloofar_Rahmani
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 15:39
  #3769 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post
Sorry, actually it isn't. She came to the US as a toddler - has lived there all her life. To all intents and purposes she's American...

How this is supposed to help Afghani women in Afghanistan is somewhat difficult to see.

Also, there have previously been Afghan female pilots in their air force - this is much more inspirational to young Afghans (of either gender). One here: First female Afghan air force pilot asks US for asylum - CNNPolitics.com

And a passing reference to two female helicopter pilots from 30+ years ago here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niloofar_Rahmani
Fair enough, but when I said that was impressive I was really talking about the flying, not being the first, or even where she is from. In terms of flying she's doing everything other people aren't.
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 15:47
  #3770 (permalink)  
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Well, actually, flying a small plane around the world - particularly the one she is flying - is not terribly difficult either (and people are doing it all the time).
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Old 12th Jul 2017, 18:44
  #3771 (permalink)  
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Maybe I'm just becoming an old cynic but, whenever I hear of yet another woman about to set off 'round the world in a small aeroplane to inspire others', the words 'attention-seeking narcissist' spring to mind.
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Old 16th Jul 2017, 01:35
  #3772 (permalink)  
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More info on the trans US jolly is starting to emerge. Including a non-photoshopped image of the Spirit of Victory.

Pilot resumes cross-continent adventure, stops in Galesburg | National Stearman Fly-In

Old 20th Jul 2017, 21:48
  #3773 (permalink)  
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Do the good ole boys of that warbird shed on Long Island really believe that she flew that Boeing around the world?

Didn't they know that the aircraft arrived in the States on two pallets, on both occasions of its arrival, and that the "pilot/s(?)" probably traveled First or Biz class in a jet, albeit a Boeing one?

They certainly wouldn't view a coast to coast flight in a biplane as "historic". Even a mediocre pilot can very easily fly such a distance over a period of a week or two. A hundred years ago mail pilots were flying coast to coast in biplanes which had vastly less reliable engines. They probably didn't use an iPad to navigate.

Didn't any of them think to ask her how she flew a Stearman across the Pacific? Or even across the Atlantic? Narsarsuaq to Goose Bay without ferry tanks would have been quite a trip! Hawaii to Burbank even more so. That space in the front was occupied by a pilot for most of her flights, so no room for an extra tank there. Where did she hide the tank? Under her modesty?

Can we expect her to be given a medal for her latest achievement?
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 01:15
  #3774 (permalink)  
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Hello all,

A mate sent this link, on Shaesta Waiz,who is now in Singapore.

Ex-Afghan refugee lets her dream take wing, Singapore News & Top Stories - The Straits Times

well done ,young woman.Stay true to your values and the very best to you in your quest.

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Old 21st Aug 2017, 20:44
  #3775 (permalink)  
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Heads up... Anyone up for some awkward questions...
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 22:19
  #3776 (permalink)  
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What on earth do Yeovilton think they're doing?

Dear Marc Stone, if you think that Curtis-Taylor is in any way worthy of being associated with the name of the late Capt Brown, then I strongly urge you to think again!
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 00:39
  #3777 (permalink)  
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Lt Marc Stone, John McEnroe was heard to often ask "you can't be serious" during some of his many tennis matches.

I now ask you the same question.


Last edited by Checklist Charlie; 22nd Aug 2017 at 21:51. Reason: .
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 06:44
  #3778 (permalink)  
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Is it April 1 again? They can't possibly be serious.

Mind you: having just read Winkle's superb autobiography, I reckon he would probably cr4p himself laughing....

Last edited by Jonzarno; 22nd Aug 2017 at 06:45. Reason: Typo
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 07:05
  #3779 (permalink)  
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Why don't you go along Beags?
With a few other like-minded souls ( Nige?) it could be a very interesting opportunity to put the record straight, from both sides.
It's a bit of a long haul for me unfortunately.
What would be unforgivable of course would be if the right to ask questions was denied or excused .
I think most have us have witnessed the "We are sorry but the speaker is unable to take questions due to another urgent appointment". etc.etc. ploy.
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Old 22nd Aug 2017, 08:28
  #3780 (permalink)  
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26 September 2017 RNAS Yeovilton Lecture 18.00

Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Heads up... Anyone up for some awkward questions...
i live not far - i'm gonna go
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