Ullswater Lake Maule pilot not guilty
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Well, one reason for occasionally entertaining the opinions of others comes from the maturity of recognizing that life is an ambiguous business, and that intelligent people will sometimes differ in their priorities and resulting judgements. Furthermore, one person may consciously choose to tweak their priorities according to their choice of activity. For example, I've known airline pilots who choose to push the boundaries of their private flying in ways which carry a much higher level of risk than they could ever consider in commercial flying.
While I may not undertake any particularly risky flying, it's very important to me that the law allows that competent individuals can reach different judgements, based on their own reasonably-held priorities. Clearly, there need to be boundaries but it's entirely possible to have a civil society which is not totally permission based.
(I see that FL's post expressing a similar view, more eloquently, has crossed with this one).
As far as PPRuNe goes, I enjoy reading the more thought-provoking posts more than the column-metres of rigid flying fundamentalism or the eternal (and periodically re-cycled) bouts of nostalgia.
While I may not undertake any particularly risky flying, it's very important to me that the law allows that competent individuals can reach different judgements, based on their own reasonably-held priorities. Clearly, there need to be boundaries but it's entirely possible to have a civil society which is not totally permission based.
(I see that FL's post expressing a similar view, more eloquently, has crossed with this one).
As far as PPRuNe goes, I enjoy reading the more thought-provoking posts more than the column-metres of rigid flying fundamentalism or the eternal (and periodically re-cycled) bouts of nostalgia.
Last edited by tecman; 26th May 2015 at 20:56. Reason: typo
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I recognize that a large factor in my unwillingness to accept public displays of horsing around in aircraft is probably that I have already flown the better part of a lifetime, including doing some silly things. I do accept that for me, I don't need to do them again, yet these may be same things which other pilots are very eager to experience.
I can see that a pilot would want to land on water - it's a wonderful experience! Get the training, and use a seaplane! A pilot might want to fly aerobatics, take the training, and use an aerobatic plane. And on and on with all the things you can do in the sky. They make an aircraft suited to it, and training is available - I stand for using the right tool... So to me, using a wheelplane to land in the water, is kinda like using pliers on a seized bolt - get the correct wrench! The pliers might work, but it also might end up much worse. A good workman knows the right tool for a job, and uses it.
Now I know pilots occasionally "go off" and "do things" in planes. I've sure done some dumb things in the wrong plane, which no one saw. You're not going to read about them here! For me, they are history.
Instead I think about the impression we are leaving in the more impressionable minds of very new pilots, about what the very experienced pilots, they might like to hold as peers one day, think about horsing around in planes. If the wise old owl pilots and nanny state pilots are saying "oh sure, that's all kinds of fun" in remarking about daring do horsing around in planes. We ingrain a culture of "the rules and limitations are meant for someone else, I can do what I want".
Yes, you can break air regs and fly safely - 'been there, done that. But that needs to be the rare exception, rather than the rule. That's where we draw the new pilot reg breaker along side as a peer, and say "yup, every now and again, when you've boxed yourself in, you may have to...... but keep it to a minimum, and be really careful". It's not: "who cares about the regs, they're dumb anyway...."!
The air regulations are MINE, I am a citizen. They are a regulatory tool in my society - they serve MY needs as a citizen (even if they are inconvenient to me as a pilot). If I'm not willing to follow them, I either seek and obtain an exemption - which I have done in the past, or I don't fly.
So if there were ever a time I were edging a regulation, you sure would not be reading about it here - much less would I want it celebrated here. I would be hoping that if it were ever found out, my peers would say: "yeah, sometimes you 'gotta", in stead of: "Oh, not again!
If I'm flying my plane, I'll be flying as though your kids are aboard. If I'm flying your plane, I'll fly it as though you were aboard. But, if nothing else, PPRuNe will not be a venue where I will allow my flying to be seen as a "watch me do something that I really know I should not do".
All that said, my feelings about this, and my sense of peer mentoring on PPRuNe, don't have to prevail, or be persuasive, they are just mine, and I can post here as anyone else can....
I can see that a pilot would want to land on water - it's a wonderful experience! Get the training, and use a seaplane! A pilot might want to fly aerobatics, take the training, and use an aerobatic plane. And on and on with all the things you can do in the sky. They make an aircraft suited to it, and training is available - I stand for using the right tool... So to me, using a wheelplane to land in the water, is kinda like using pliers on a seized bolt - get the correct wrench! The pliers might work, but it also might end up much worse. A good workman knows the right tool for a job, and uses it.
Now I know pilots occasionally "go off" and "do things" in planes. I've sure done some dumb things in the wrong plane, which no one saw. You're not going to read about them here! For me, they are history.
Instead I think about the impression we are leaving in the more impressionable minds of very new pilots, about what the very experienced pilots, they might like to hold as peers one day, think about horsing around in planes. If the wise old owl pilots and nanny state pilots are saying "oh sure, that's all kinds of fun" in remarking about daring do horsing around in planes. We ingrain a culture of "the rules and limitations are meant for someone else, I can do what I want".
Yes, you can break air regs and fly safely - 'been there, done that. But that needs to be the rare exception, rather than the rule. That's where we draw the new pilot reg breaker along side as a peer, and say "yup, every now and again, when you've boxed yourself in, you may have to...... but keep it to a minimum, and be really careful". It's not: "who cares about the regs, they're dumb anyway...."!
The air regulations are MINE, I am a citizen. They are a regulatory tool in my society - they serve MY needs as a citizen (even if they are inconvenient to me as a pilot). If I'm not willing to follow them, I either seek and obtain an exemption - which I have done in the past, or I don't fly.
So if there were ever a time I were edging a regulation, you sure would not be reading about it here - much less would I want it celebrated here. I would be hoping that if it were ever found out, my peers would say: "yeah, sometimes you 'gotta", in stead of: "Oh, not again!
If I'm flying my plane, I'll be flying as though your kids are aboard. If I'm flying your plane, I'll fly it as though you were aboard. But, if nothing else, PPRuNe will not be a venue where I will allow my flying to be seen as a "watch me do something that I really know I should not do".
All that said, my feelings about this, and my sense of peer mentoring on PPRuNe, don't have to prevail, or be persuasive, they are just mine, and I can post here as anyone else can....
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Thanks Jetblu, I will appreciatively decline your thoughtful offer. With a couple hundred hours flying 303's, 310s and 340s, I can appreciate their pleasing handling, though I've never had one upside down.
I had occasion years ago to have to check fly a club 172. Per club rules, they sent an instructor along to check me out. Late in the flight, he asked if I would show him a roll. He seemed genuinely disappointed that I would not. He learned a lesson in my self restraint. I'm confident that I would have SSD's complete support when I say that a 172 is a yucky plane to roll, but I'm just guessing....
I had occasion years ago to have to check fly a club 172. Per club rules, they sent an instructor along to check me out. Late in the flight, he asked if I would show him a roll. He seemed genuinely disappointed that I would not. He learned a lesson in my self restraint. I'm confident that I would have SSD's complete support when I say that a 172 is a yucky plane to roll, but I'm just guessing....
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A 172
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9nODIECB78
A 310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvTQJC-rQQ
A 340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swGxwf90piM
Even a Citation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUFPPy5qnI
I think we can put the theory side to bed.
Step - you can be my wingman any day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9nODIECB78
A 310
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXvTQJC-rQQ
A 340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swGxwf90piM
Even a Citation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUFPPy5qnI
I think we can put the theory side to bed.
Step - you can be my wingman any day
Last edited by Jetblu; 27th May 2015 at 09:20. Reason: correct link
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I once flew a Dash 8 under the Golden Gate Bridge - so I appreciate the photograph of the Spitfire!
... but do lawyers believe that?!
Contrary to popular belief, lawyers are human beings.
Last edited by SpannerInTheWerks; 27th May 2015 at 11:39.
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Most of us do.
Some people would say lawyers and professional pilots share at least one personality trait.
(Perhaps true of some individuals in both professions.)
Please tell us more about flying the Dash 8 under the Golden Gate Bridge.
Some people would say lawyers and professional pilots share at least one personality trait.
(Perhaps true of some individuals in both professions.)
Please tell us more about flying the Dash 8 under the Golden Gate Bridge.
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I don't want to go into much detail but I did a renewal with a CAA / FAA examiner in a twin!
Having impressed the guy with a pretty good test and locked onto the ILS for the final time to land!
He took the controls,stated I had never done this before and barrel rolled the twin on the ILS coming out still on the localiser and glide
Pretty impressive
Pace
Having impressed the guy with a pretty good test and locked onto the ILS for the final time to land!
He took the controls,stated I had never done this before and barrel rolled the twin on the ILS coming out still on the localiser and glide
Pretty impressive
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 27th May 2015 at 18:48.
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Most of us do.
Some people would say lawyers and professional pilots share at least one personality trait.
(Perhaps true of some individuals in both professions.)
Please tell us more about flying the Dash 8 under the Golden Gate Bridge.
Some people would say lawyers and professional pilots share at least one personality trait.
(Perhaps true of some individuals in both professions.)
Please tell us more about flying the Dash 8 under the Golden Gate Bridge.
Sorry to say it was in the sim - in Paris in 2001, I think!!!
Talking of bridges, this looks like more of a challenge than the Golden Gate:
A non-pilot friend of mine recently flew Concorde through Tower Bridge and sent me the evidence.
A non-pilot friend of mine recently flew Concorde through Tower Bridge and sent me the evidence.
Ullswater Lake Maule pilot not guilty
You may remember the video of a Maule practicing water landings on tundra tyres and the somewhat hysterical reaction by the public and police...
Scots pilot who sparked plane crash alert over Lake District by skimming aircraft on Ullswater walks free from court - Daily Record
Not guilty and costs awarded against the CAA......
Scots pilot who sparked plane crash alert over Lake District by skimming aircraft on Ullswater walks free from court - Daily Record
Not guilty and costs awarded against the CAA......
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Perhaps good representation...
Perhaps his actions were found to be in that grey zone of not prosecutable, but in my opinion, still not entirely wise when it alarms the public either. When we as fire fighters do water training which may attract public attention, and perhaps well intended emergency calls, we notify local emergency dispatch and the police before we do it. It is fair that the public be confused with a wheel plane doing water touch and goes!
Perhaps his actions were found to be in that grey zone of not prosecutable, but in my opinion, still not entirely wise when it alarms the public either. When we as fire fighters do water training which may attract public attention, and perhaps well intended emergency calls, we notify local emergency dispatch and the police before we do it. It is fair that the public be confused with a wheel plane doing water touch and goes!
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Well done, he must have taken a celebration flight today, I heard him on the radio heading North while I was heading South, nice to hear a fellow Mauler dodged the bullet.
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I do remember this previous thread and locking horns with one or two.
So common sense did prevail after all. Thank God for that. I see no 'grey area' whatsoever. I saw a 'water area' where the pilot operated within the Air Navigation Order and the 500' rule.
Too many numpties walking about in sandals and eating ice creams reporting these things, which was a clearly a non event from the video. These numpties need to get themselves down to the Fire Station and play with the Firemen who I'm sure will amuse them on their tenders.
Best wishes to the pilot and Counsel.
So common sense did prevail after all. Thank God for that. I see no 'grey area' whatsoever. I saw a 'water area' where the pilot operated within the Air Navigation Order and the 500' rule.
Too many numpties walking about in sandals and eating ice creams reporting these things, which was a clearly a non event from the video. These numpties need to get themselves down to the Fire Station and play with the Firemen who I'm sure will amuse them on their tenders.
Best wishes to the pilot and Counsel.