buying an albatros for transportation
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buying an albatros for transportation
Hi All,
I am soon to be a private pilot. And considering buying a plane. My mission is basically transport myself, and take my fiance with me sometimes.
Because of my job I have to travel almost 2 times per month, 3000 km or 4000 km each time. I also have to take 2 or 3 flights plus the long trip bus to get me to the airport. I live in the middle of nowhere, there's a rather small airport near my home that could come in handy If I were to buy a plane though.
I don't want a plane for many people, the majority of my friends don't share this desired for flying I've always had, my family is more willingly to fly with me, however I think for the so few chances that they will do so throughout the year , renting a plane would be better choice than owning one cost wise.
Because of the long distances, and the availability of jet fuel all over the world and its cheapness I have considered a jet. I haven't found anything that resembles the typical GA plane with a jet engine however, so that's why I am considering buying an demilitarized jet fighter. Also it'd be way cooler. I've already looked up some schools around Europe where to get my rating after the 500 PIC hours EASA'S requirement.
Do you think an ex-military jet aircraft such as Aero L39 albatros. would fit my purpose?
Given that I'll be flying a lot, do the operational costs decrease compared to another 2 seater SEP aircraft ?
Do jet engines get broken more often than propeller ones, is the plane in general safer?
thanks
I am soon to be a private pilot. And considering buying a plane. My mission is basically transport myself, and take my fiance with me sometimes.
Because of my job I have to travel almost 2 times per month, 3000 km or 4000 km each time. I also have to take 2 or 3 flights plus the long trip bus to get me to the airport. I live in the middle of nowhere, there's a rather small airport near my home that could come in handy If I were to buy a plane though.
I don't want a plane for many people, the majority of my friends don't share this desired for flying I've always had, my family is more willingly to fly with me, however I think for the so few chances that they will do so throughout the year , renting a plane would be better choice than owning one cost wise.
Because of the long distances, and the availability of jet fuel all over the world and its cheapness I have considered a jet. I haven't found anything that resembles the typical GA plane with a jet engine however, so that's why I am considering buying an demilitarized jet fighter. Also it'd be way cooler. I've already looked up some schools around Europe where to get my rating after the 500 PIC hours EASA'S requirement.
Do you think an ex-military jet aircraft such as Aero L39 albatros. would fit my purpose?
Given that I'll be flying a lot, do the operational costs decrease compared to another 2 seater SEP aircraft ?
Do jet engines get broken more often than propeller ones, is the plane in general safer?
thanks
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Surely it would be cheaper to just get a helicopter transport to the airport and catch a commercial flight?
Sounds like a mad plan.
Will the local airport even allow it? A civilian ex-military jet? The insurance would be insane.
If you are very rich then look into the Cirrus SF50, a 'VLJ' Very Light Jet. Which they seem to think people will buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et4EfiVGQFs
Sounds like a mad plan.
Will the local airport even allow it? A civilian ex-military jet? The insurance would be insane.
If you are very rich then look into the Cirrus SF50, a 'VLJ' Very Light Jet. Which they seem to think people will buy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et4EfiVGQFs
Last edited by Gentoo; 16th Jan 2016 at 20:53. Reason: adding link to SF50 video
not good idea
Hullo OP, I can hardly believe that post.
So you travel long distance less than twice a month. It's not a good basis upon which to consider aircraft ownership or develop expert flying skills.
Make flying a low key hobby.
So you travel long distance less than twice a month. It's not a good basis upon which to consider aircraft ownership or develop expert flying skills.
Make flying a low key hobby.
A fighter trainer is almost certainly beyond the capabilities of a new PPL, will cost a fortune to run, and is not very practical for long distances.
The sensible approach for long trips like this would be a piston twin or single turboprop. Both will cost much more than flying commercially business class, but will be cheaper and more practical than a jet.
For long trips over any distance in northern Europe you'll also need an Instrument Rating, which will cost you several times more than your PPL has.
In my opinion, you don't want to jump straight into something as complex as this anyhow. You'd be best off initially getting your SEP/IR and buying or (more wisely) renting a retractable single like a Turbo Arrow or C182RT and get used to doing some shorter trips (say 1000km) to see if you can cope with long trips on your own. Then think about adding complexity (either passengers, a meatier aeroplane, or a more complex aeroplane). But you need to build up to this sort of thing, if you have any expectation of living beyond the first year of your qualified flying career.
G
The sensible approach for long trips like this would be a piston twin or single turboprop. Both will cost much more than flying commercially business class, but will be cheaper and more practical than a jet.
For long trips over any distance in northern Europe you'll also need an Instrument Rating, which will cost you several times more than your PPL has.
In my opinion, you don't want to jump straight into something as complex as this anyhow. You'd be best off initially getting your SEP/IR and buying or (more wisely) renting a retractable single like a Turbo Arrow or C182RT and get used to doing some shorter trips (say 1000km) to see if you can cope with long trips on your own. Then think about adding complexity (either passengers, a meatier aeroplane, or a more complex aeroplane). But you need to build up to this sort of thing, if you have any expectation of living beyond the first year of your qualified flying career.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 16th Jan 2016 at 21:51.
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Here's your typical GA 4 seater with a turbine
Maule MT-7-420 (turbine) performance and specifications
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SavGKrFdS0A
Maule MT-7-420 (turbine) performance and specifications
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SavGKrFdS0A
Ex military might require substantial paperwork for every country you fly over.
Perhaps if you were Minister of ... or an Air Attache you might get by as operator of a state aircraft
A turboprop single is more in the realm of possibility, but the insurer will require an experienced IFR pilot to keep you company for quite some time.
Whatever you get will have to be maintained. Who at your local airport is capable of looking after a jet or turboprop?
Does your small airport have instrument approaches, preferably ILS? If not you will on occasion be taking the bus home from the big airport when the weather is down.
Oh yes, the L-39, like most jet trainers, does not have the range for your proposed trips; so you would be looking at 1 or 2 fuel stops.
Perhaps if you were Minister of ... or an Air Attache you might get by as operator of a state aircraft
A turboprop single is more in the realm of possibility, but the insurer will require an experienced IFR pilot to keep you company for quite some time.
Whatever you get will have to be maintained. Who at your local airport is capable of looking after a jet or turboprop?
Does your small airport have instrument approaches, preferably ILS? If not you will on occasion be taking the bus home from the big airport when the weather is down.
Oh yes, the L-39, like most jet trainers, does not have the range for your proposed trips; so you would be looking at 1 or 2 fuel stops.
In my head I agree with all the replies. Also in the US at least an L-39 flies only as an experimental and can't be used for this purpose - don't know about Europe, but it's rare that Europe is more flexible than the US.
But... I have a friend who always wanted to be a pilot. He is a very committed, intense kind of person. He did his PPL about five years back then within a year or two also had his IR (FAA), AMEL and CPL. His business has done extraordinarily well and he made some serious money from it. He now has an Embraer Phenom, which he uses to fly himself from coast to coast and many other places as well. For the moment he doesn't have single-pilot authorization, so he pays someone to be SIC, but knowing my friend, I doubt that the SIC has to do very much.
Soooo. it can be done. But it takes a huge level of commitment and the right kind of person. And I doubt that an L-39 would work. (I've flown one. It's a lot of (very expensive) fun, but really not an A-to-B kind of aircraft).
But... I have a friend who always wanted to be a pilot. He is a very committed, intense kind of person. He did his PPL about five years back then within a year or two also had his IR (FAA), AMEL and CPL. His business has done extraordinarily well and he made some serious money from it. He now has an Embraer Phenom, which he uses to fly himself from coast to coast and many other places as well. For the moment he doesn't have single-pilot authorization, so he pays someone to be SIC, but knowing my friend, I doubt that the SIC has to do very much.
Soooo. it can be done. But it takes a huge level of commitment and the right kind of person. And I doubt that an L-39 would work. (I've flown one. It's a lot of (very expensive) fun, but really not an A-to-B kind of aircraft).
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Mike Mangold was an exceptional pilot and extremely experienced.
Red Bull pilot Mike Mangold killed in plane crash at Southern California airport | Daily Mail Online
Red Bull pilot Mike Mangold killed in plane crash at Southern California airport | Daily Mail Online
Even if you have the right pilot skillset (and surplus income!), in my opinion (having done long trips in most classes of aeroplane at some point in my life, including similar aircraft to the L39) the L39 is the wrong aeroplane for trips of this nature.
It's less of an all weather aeroplane than even something as pedestrian as a Piper Arrow, doesn't carry a lot of fuel, isn't pax friendly, doesn't have automatic international overflight permissions, and needs specialist support you may not find at many airports.
If the OP is hellbent on something ex-military, he would be better off with a Pilatus PC7 on a CofA - but a PC12 would work far better if he has that sort of money.
For less money, but still jet fuel, and with the capability: a PT6 engined Piper Malibu / Meridian variant would make more sense still to me.
G
It's less of an all weather aeroplane than even something as pedestrian as a Piper Arrow, doesn't carry a lot of fuel, isn't pax friendly, doesn't have automatic international overflight permissions, and needs specialist support you may not find at many airports.
If the OP is hellbent on something ex-military, he would be better off with a Pilatus PC7 on a CofA - but a PC12 would work far better if he has that sort of money.
For less money, but still jet fuel, and with the capability: a PT6 engined Piper Malibu / Meridian variant would make more sense still to me.
G
You could also consider a DA42 or DA62. Long range, burns jet fuel, certified for flight into icing, but comes with piston engine operating costs, not turbine ones.
I think some of the replies are overlooking what's probably the motivation here for an L-39. Sure, a PC12 is much more suited to the mission - but you'll be doing well to get one for $2M. Whereas you can pick up a decent L-39 for $200K. Problem is, the operating costs are the same as they would be if you did pay $2M for it.
I know someone who has one, uses it mainly for airshow flying (and the occasional person like me who's willing to pay $2K for an infrequent flying adventure). Suffice it so say, he does not make money out of it.
I know someone who has one, uses it mainly for airshow flying (and the occasional person like me who's willing to pay $2K for an infrequent flying adventure). Suffice it so say, he does not make money out of it.
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No, a L-39 and similar aircraft will not fit your purpose. Mainly because they are classified as "Exhibition Class" under Experimental and as such are issued airworthiness within a 600nm radius around home base with further travel only on special request. Yes, there are quite a few demil aircraft, but mostly flown by enthusiasts and not for frequent travel. Further yes, there is a complicated way to get a waiver from the 600nm restriction. There is a vital group flying these birds and especially the L-39 has big fan boys. They are comparably affordable and good ones start as low as 200k, with at 400k typically equipped with bells&whistles. They are nice trainer and after the 500 hours plus training flyable by the ordinary PPL pilot (of course, what do you think the airforces do - they put students in there with 50h tached and at 500h these defend you country in an Eurofighter).
Your fiance most probably won't like such a bird as it still is designed as a figther trainer and IS uncomfortable. Operational costs for a L-39 would be around 1000/h, about 3000/h with maintenance, so comparable to high power GA. As it is Experimental reg'ed flying across borders is quite some paperworks.
Your fiance most probably won't like such a bird as it still is designed as a figther trainer and IS uncomfortable. Operational costs for a L-39 would be around 1000/h, about 3000/h with maintenance, so comparable to high power GA. As it is Experimental reg'ed flying across borders is quite some paperworks.
There are a few surplus Tucanos and PC9s on the market or how about an RFB Fantrainer? Otherwise something like a Piper PA46T Meridian or TBM 700 might provide the performance you require.
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doesn't matter whether you're flying a small jet or a powerful turbo prop, 3000-4000km is quite a distance. You will need some 2-5 toilet and fuel breaks, essentially you're looking at a proper 12h work day at which you will be quite exhausted. Think of the logistics involved - you don't have a dispatcher as airlines do - all flight planing, weather briefings, ground handling is on you. What kind of impact would it have on your work if you would get stuck half way because of weather or tech issues? They will happen! Fatigue is a major concern here, you don't have a crew to work with and keep you alert
I would rather buy a small twin an commute as far as the closest international airport from which you can get to your destination - and even then only on a good day when weather delays are not likely
I would rather buy a small twin an commute as far as the closest international airport from which you can get to your destination - and even then only on a good day when weather delays are not likely
Chickenhouse - no such thing as experimental for routine aircraft operations in either your declared country, or the OPs so far as I know. Exhibition class experimental is a category which exists in the USA only and is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
That the aircraft is sub-ICAO, and therefore does not have automatic international overflight permissions, as several of us have pointed out, is highly relevant in Europe however. The same problem would exist with the Tincano and PC9 mentioned by Chevvron - hence that I mentioned earlier the PC7, which so far as I know is the only turbine ex military trainer available with an ICAO compliant CofA (rare as hens teeth, but they do exist.)
G
That the aircraft is sub-ICAO, and therefore does not have automatic international overflight permissions, as several of us have pointed out, is highly relevant in Europe however. The same problem would exist with the Tincano and PC9 mentioned by Chevvron - hence that I mentioned earlier the PC7, which so far as I know is the only turbine ex military trainer available with an ICAO compliant CofA (rare as hens teeth, but they do exist.)
G
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Theres a PC7 for sale here;
Pilatus PC-7 Aircraft For Sale | New & Used Pilatus PC-7 Aircraft at Trade-A-Plane
Pilatus PC-7 Aircraft For Sale | New & Used Pilatus PC-7 Aircraft at Trade-A-Plane
I think the OP is using the old Columbian marching powder.
To me, it looks like no thought whatsoever has gone into his plan, he wants the L39 because
If you are serious, lose the James Bond attitude and think with your head, not your heart.
To me, it looks like no thought whatsoever has gone into his plan, he wants the L39 because
Also it'd be way cooler.
Suffice it so say, he does not make money out of it.
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There used to be a personal pilot jet many moons ago called a Paris jet!
It was a four seater and I think some famous film star owned one
No idea what the range was or whether any are still airworthy
But like most here 4000 km ? Not even a modern small business jet will do that in one
The trip time with refuel stops and costs would not be practical and you would need an IR and bags of experience and money
Pace
It was a four seater and I think some famous film star owned one
No idea what the range was or whether any are still airworthy
But like most here 4000 km ? Not even a modern small business jet will do that in one
The trip time with refuel stops and costs would not be practical and you would need an IR and bags of experience and money
Pace