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Hand propping while keeping all my fingers

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Old 14th Dec 2015, 16:15
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Continental, the prop needs to be in the 10 o'clock position (when facing the aircraft), as is indicated in the videos a
Depends where you prop it from - if you are doing it from behind then it is 2 o'clock looking from there - also of course the prop goes clockwise looking from the back not from the front so to me it does not seem quite right to use o'clock on a prop that goes anti-clockwise!
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 17:02
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mixed up,
It doesn't matter whether the fuel is on or off. There's enough fuel in the carburettor for the engine to start, if the mags are live.
If the aircraft moves forward due the throttle being inadvertently left open (this happened to a colleague recently) it could mean the difference between recovering the aircraft from a few yards away or recovering the UAV from a miles away.

Also, turn off the fuel when sucking in, in case a mag lead has failed to live.

Which is why I say, never move the propeller with the fuel on.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 17:46
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Originally Posted by flybymike
It seems that an essential part of the process is raising your right leg off the ground.....
The idea is that you push off the prop as you swing it, and get your right leg swinging away from the prop. You end up with momentum carrying you away from the prop if something goes wrong.
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 18:38
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Do NOT FORGET if it's a tail wheel a/c that the prop tips are a lot closer to your shins than the tip appears at the top of its arc.

So when assessing where to stand etc. have a little look at just how much/little gap there is !

mike hallam (Fingerful after 20 years of hand propping a Potez flat four).
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 21:46
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With key mags and start, master off is a useful safety item. Past both on, and the starter could kick.
I'd rather handstart with no-one in the cockpit than with an untrained person.
After several starts of a Jodel O200 with it stopping before I could get in, a senior big plane engineer offered to help. As I approached the cockpit to get in after starting, I thanked him, and said to close the throttle while I got in. He pushed the lever fully in, the plane jumped the chocks, and zig-zagged about on the apron, with brakes seizing wheel on ice patch, then allowing movement on dry bits. He froze for a while before closing the throttle.
NEVER let an untrained person swing the prop.
PS in cold conditions I've started Pa28 engines with the primer out, closing it slowly after start
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Old 14th Dec 2015, 22:47
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Sorry but Master Off is no guarantee of mags off. Mags are an independent power source. Airborne, switch master off, radio goes dead!
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 08:18
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I can see what Maoraigh is saying with the master but it will not make a lot of difference on many aircraft as the starter motor is often a direct take from the battery.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 08:55
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I know master has nothing to do with mags. But on a key start system, a slight turn too far on the "On" call can give a kick from the starter if the master is on. Not possible with separate mag switches and starter switch. Our system will not activate the starter with the master off. The solenoid is through the master. A direct pull to the starter switch would be separate from the may switches.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 15:29
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Maoraigh 1
I'm sorry, I see what you are getting at.
My bug smasher doesn't have a key switch. Unfamiliarity breeds ignorance, my mistake.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 17:27
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In an airworthy certified airplane, the electric stater cannot be engaged with the master off. If it can, something is really wrong!

Yes, leaving the master off during hand propping would prevent unintended actuation of starter - but a cautious pilot should prevent unintended actuation of anything!

Many smaller Continental power planes up to the late '60's had a pull starter knob, which was independent of any other control. They required a hearty pull to engage the starter. They worked extremely well, other than for two big dislikes: If they were set up incorrectly, they could really damage gears in the engine (the starter was turning gears as they engaged, rather than after engagement), and, instructors did not like the system, as it was a difficult reach across the student, with an awkward pull to start from the right side. Reaching across to turn the key was easier.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 17:37
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Pulled the prop through on a Rallye tug on a cold morning, an aircraft renowned for being reluctant to start. A four blader, 180 hp, just come out of a cold hangar, oat -10.
Chocked, no prime, throttle closed, keys in my pocket. The ***** started, ran for long enough for me to walk round the back, get on the wing and reach down to the fuel tap.
Still have all my fingers, never wear a watch or rings when handling a prop or a battery. Beware clothing, too, especially scarves and long sleeves.
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Old 15th Dec 2015, 18:18
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keys in my pocket. The ***** started,
I've flown a Warrior that had a faulty key-switch. I could take the key out in any switch position, not just Off.

I much prefer toggle switches for mags, preferably ones I can see, when I'm hand-propping e.g. Tiger Moths and Canadian Chipmunks.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 07:36
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I have a pull starter. It won't, and shouldn't, work with the master off.
The mags don't care if the master is on or off. She'll start with a hand swing regardless. It did once when pulling through. I had the keys in my pocket.
An engineer had left a mag live after using one of his own 'generic' keys.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 10:03
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Apropos 'mag' switches on or off & starters.

I understand a pre WWI Rolls Royce car engine was started from stationary with a shower of sparks. With the Potez flat four, there were a few notable occasions where she too started from stationary.

After manually propping to suck in & back in the cockpit I switched the ignition tumbler switches on. [i.e. no starter which I rarely used]. This alone could yield a propitious spark into the fuel air mix in a cylinder & away she went.

Moral: A prop is ALWAYS live.

mike hallam.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 19:31
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Sadly a bit of a horror story from me - many moons ago I was hand swinging a 100Hp Continental on a home build when the engine backfired (I believe that the impulse had stuck during suck ins & then released as the cylinder came up to compression), anyway it went backwards at 2000rpm leaving my thumb hanging from a thread . Thankfully the wonderful surgeons at Odstock Hospital sewed it back on after a 2 hour wait (it was Christmas after all) & there it remains.
Not swung a prop since & shudder at the mere thought.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 20:55
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Soon after I started flying I asked an experienced pilot friend of mine about hand propping. He said, "Never done it, I don't want to be called Lefty".

Settled it for me. I did see one of my instructors do it once on a 172 with a flat battery. But I'd prefer to get the battery cart.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 21:04
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Well I've hand-propped various taildraggers on a regular basis for decades and am convinced that as long as you know what you are doing, and do it correctly, it carries very little risk.

I'm not so comfortable hand-propping the likes of 172s, but if it meant the difference between flying home or leaving the aeroplane and getting the bus I wouldn't hesitate to hand prop it. Carefully.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 21:29
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anyway it went backwards at 2000rpm leaving my thumb hanging from a thread
Jesus, that would put a damper on any aspirations of having a career as a concert pianist.
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Old 16th Dec 2015, 21:57
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About 45 years ago, when I was young and stupid, I was offered a trip in rather a shabby old TriPacer. The brakes (hand operated) weren't very good and the engine wasn't happy to run with the throttle closed, as I later discovered....

Having got into the left hand seat from over the back seat with the pilot in the other seat holding the brake lever with the engine at about 1200 rpm, I strapped in and was invited to taxy the thing to the end of the runway at the disused aerodrome where it had landed. Being an RAF Chipmunk student at the time, I taxyed as we'd been taught, closed the throttle and braked to a standstill planning to do some take-off checks - whereupon the engine promptly stopped.

The starter motor was somewhat intermittent and chose not to work on this occasion. Undaunted, the pilot hopped out and hailed a passing cyclist on the public road which crossed the runway. "Ever swung a prop, mate?" he asked. "No", came the predictable reply - so the pilot showed him how, got back in, yelled "OK" and the engine started first time!

By then I was beginning to realise that the pilot and his friend weren't actually that safe, so after we took off with the intention of filming the friend's house only to encounter a nasty shower, I decided enough was enough, went back and landed, then legged it and left them to it!

I Learned About Flying From That!
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Old 18th Dec 2015, 04:44
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Grrr Uh-oh, the scary results of a hand-start gone wrong

Apologies to those that have already read this piece, but it's a good example of what can happen if you're outside starting your aircraft and you're having a bad day.

I always thought that Bennie Hill could have done a good parody of the trail of aircraft following and Colonel Blimp shooting out of the window of one of them... anyway thanks to Melissa Green for the writeup - the original website has long gone but this is a great true story!:

-----------------

Wagga's airplane is an Auster. Its history is based upon that of an Auster J/4 Archer which took off without its pilot one morning in August 1955 and was subsequently -- after a long flight over the Sydney area in New South Wales, Australia -- shot down by two Royal Navy pilots on loan to the Royal Australian Navy. This history is fundamental to Wagga's relationship to and feelings about the Auster, as the story will make apparent.

Meanwhile, here is a complete account of the flyaway Auster as drawn from accounts in the Sydney Morning Herald of 31 August 1955, a day after the incident. Grateful acknowledgment is made to Bernie Lingham of Deakin University Library, Geelong, Victoria, Australia, who tracked down the newspaper story on scant information.
-- Mel, 22 April 2001

The Flyaway Auster

Shortly before 9:00 AM on Tuesday, 30 August 1955, Anthony Thrower of Granville, a suburb of Sydney, Australia, had taken one circuit of Bankstown aerodrome when his airplane stalled. As he later told police, "I was on a solo flight and I had made one circle of the drome when the engine cut out about 10 feet from the ground. I landed the plane in the middle of the strip. I then got out and swung the propeller. The engine started. The brake failed to hold and the aircraft took off by itself. It then took off in the direction of Sydney.

The aircraft, owned by Kingsford Smith Aviation Service Flying School at Bankstown, was an Auster J/4 Archer , one of only 26 aircraft built of that model. [Auster] The Auster Archer was a two-seater civilian model based on the more well-known Austers used as Air Observation Platforms (AOP), artillery spotters, and for other uses near the end of World War II and in Korea. The Archer was high-winged monoplane with a 110 horsepower Cirrus Minor Engine.

After taking off without its pilot, the Auster circled Bankstown aerodrome at a low altitude for about 15 minutes, closely missing the air control tower and other airport buildings, before gaining altitude and circling left to fly towards Sydney. Meantime, Thrower ran a half-mile from the runway to alert the control tower. Bankstown officials soon alerted officials at Mascot, which broadcast a general alarm to aircraft in the vicinity. Police and other authorities were also informed.

One of two Auster AOPs operated by the Royal Australian Navy from about 1953 to 1963. Both were operated by the 723 Squadron of the Fleet Air Arm. Most AOPs were 2-seaters. The runaway Auster was a civilian 2-seater similar to the AOP. The naval Auster autocar flown by Commander J.R.W. Groves flew when he, with three passengers, trailed the runaway Auster for over two hours on 30 August 1955 was a 4-seater.

Commander J.R.W. Groves of the Royal Australian Navy, piloting three other naval personnel in a 4-seat Auster autocar, heard the alert. "We were returning to Schofields aerodrome after an exercise flight about 8.50 a.m. when we were alerted by Mascot to watch for the runaway," Groves later stated. He spotted the Auster above Fairfield: "We were near Bankstown when we saw it about 1,500 feet up and climbing in tight circles. I caught up with it, and went in to within 50 yards to see if anyone was in it. Previous reports had indicated the possibility that someone, perhaps a small boy, was crouched in the runaway airplane, but Groves and his passengers saw no one. "It was obvious it was unoccupied and that the controls were fixed in the one position," Groves stated. "We followed it as it gained height and moved over the centre of the city [of Sydney] about 9:30 a.m., then over Garden Island, Point Piper and Watson's Bay. There was nothing we could [do] about it. We had no armament to shoot it down, and, in any case, we could not have done that while it was over land. When over Watson's Bay it started to take a northerly direction at about 6,000 feet. We kept notifying Mascot of its position until the Wirraway arrived.

Mascot apparently relayed the position information to the Bourke Street police radio station [in Sydney], which broadcast the Auster's whereabouts at nearly one-minute intervals. Spectators who heard the broadcasts lined the coast around Sydney Harbour, while other residents flooded police and news media switchboards with calls. Police patrolled the areas over which the Auster flew, and fire and ambulance officers remained on alert.

Shadowed from Bankstown by the naval Auster autocar and other naval and RAAF aircraft from Bankstown, the Auster overflew Punchbowl, Bexley, Hurtsville, Rockdale, Mascot, Alexandria, Redfern, Point Piper, Rose Bay, Vaucluse, North Head, Manly, and Narrabeen before flying out to sea to Palm Beach and Broken Bay.

The Wirraway, taking its name from aboriginal for challenge, was a modified version of the North American NA-33 manufactured by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation (CAC). It was flown by the RAAF from 1939 to 1959. An RAAF Wirraway piloted by Wing-Commander Douglas Beattie tailed the runaway Auster on 30 August 1955. Squadron-Leader T. Janes, accompanying Beattie, was armed with a hand machine-gun and attempted to shoot the Auster down about 9,000 feet over the sea. After firing one burst, intense cold prevented Janes from changing the magazine to fire another burst.

Meantime, at 9:22 AM, the Department of Civil Aviation had requested RAAF Air Operations at Home Command to shoot down the Auster. The RAAF dispatched a CAC Wirraway from Richmond, piloted by Wing Commander D. Beattie and Squadron Leader T. Janes, to shadow the Auster and ascertain whether the Auster was indeed unoccupied. Two RAAF Gloster Meteors from Williamstown, an operation training unit, was also dispatched in support of the Wirraway. Two unarmed Sabre jet fighters were also sent out to track the Auster.

Shortly after the Wirraway caught up with the runaway, the naval Auster autocar piloted by Commander Groves headed for home. About 11 a.m., when the Auster was east of Narrabeen we returned to the aerodrome after being airborne three and a quarter hours," Groves later reported. "It was one of the most amazing experiences I have had.

The flyaway Auster flew well out to sea, where the Wirraway circled it at an altitude of 9,000 feet. Squadron Leader Janes shot a burst at the Auster with a hand machine-gun, but apparently missed, and he was unable to change the magazine to fire another burst because of the extreme cold.
Meteors are single-seat interceptors, and were the only jets to see action in World War II in the RAF. They were flown by the RAAF from 1946, being officially retired in 1963.[RAAF] An RAAF Meteor attempted to shoot down the runaway Auster, but was hampered by the Auster's slow airspeed (about 70 mph), too slow for the Meteor which had a stalling speed of 100 mph. In addition, the Meteor's guns jammed.

An RAAF Meteor, a single-seat jet interceptor, then attempted to shoot down the Auster. A second Meteor was standing by. Meteors were the only jets to have seen action in World War II (in the UK's Royal Air Force), and had been flown in the RAAF since 1946. They had already proven themselves in two years' service in the Korean War.

But the Auster was traveling at about 70 miles per hour -- 30 mph lower than the Meteor's stalling speed of 100 mph -- making the Auster too slow for the Meteor to effectively chase. Adding to that frustration, when the first Meteor fired at the Auster, its guns jammed. The standby Meteor apparently made no attempt to shoot the Auster. The names of the Meteor pilots do not seem to have been disclosed to the media.

From 1949 to 1962, 101 Hawker Sea Furies were operated by the Royal Australian Navy as the RAN's principal fleet defence fighter. Two Sea Furies, operated by Lt. J.R.T. Bluett and Lt. Peter McNay of the 805 Squadron, on loan to the RAN from the UK's Royal Navy, were responsible for shooting down the runaway Auster.

Two Sea Furies were then dispatched from the naval base at Nowra. The Furies were piloted by two Royal Navy lieutenants on loan to the Royal Australian Navy. Lt. J.R.J. Bluett had served eight months in the Korean War from the H.M.S. Glory and Lt.Peter McNay had served eight months in Australia after completing his training in England.

"The operations staff told us the story of the Auster," Lt. Bluett told the Sydney Morning Herald, "and after we got word that it was still in the air, we took off with four loaded cannon in each aircraft. Mascot and the R.A.A.F. Meteor gave us the position of the Auster, which we spotted out to sea off Broken Bay at 11.35. As it flew in tight circles at about 10,000 feet, Lieut. McNay went in with flaps down to within 100 yards of it to make sure there was no one in it. He pulled off, made a run from astern, and gave it a short burst from his cannon. It rocked as he came on, and we knew it was hit. I came in and fired at it beam on. I gave it about 15 rounds, and almost immediately a great sheet of flame rose from the cockpit. It levelled out, smoke pouring from it, and started to go down in a slow spiral. We followed it down and Lieut. McNay gave it two or three more bursts on the way down. It hit the water with a splash, still in one piece, and disappeared. From the time we first hit it, it was a minute and a half before it crashed."

One of two unarmed Sabre jet fighters caught three photographs of the flyaway minutes before the Auster was shot down. [Jet's Camera...] The Auster met its fate about 10 miles northeast of Broken Bay. At 11:45 AM, the police radio broadcast the announcement that "the Auster had been shot down. It's all over." In all, the Auster had flown pilotless for nearly three hours.

Ground staff at Nowra later painted a yellow emblem, representing the downed Auster, on the fuselage of Bluett's Sea Fury.

The Navy Office in Melbourne issued an official statement later the same day:

The facts relating to the destruction of the runaway Auster aircraft off Broken Bay this afternoon are as follows:

After other attempts (by two R.A.AF Meteor jet fighters and an RAAF Wirraway) to shoot the aircraft down had failed, two Sea Fury single-seat fighter aircraft of the R.A.N. Fleet Air Arm from Nowra were called on.
One of the Sea Furys, piloted by Lieutenant J.R.T. Bluett, of 805 Squadron, shot the Auster down and set it on fire, and as it was falling the other Sea Fury, piloted by Lieutenant P.F. McNay, also of 805 Squadron, completed its destruction by gunfire.

The remains of the Auster then crashed into the sea.

The RAAF suffered some embarrasment over the incident. The runaway Auster "caught the R.A.A.F. out," Minister of Air A.G. Townley told the Sydney Morning Herald. "It's peacetime, not wartime, and the pilots at Williamstown were on stand down. If necessary we could have scrambled the two squadrons of Avon Sabre jet fighters from Williamtown. But you don't take a 12-inch gun to shoot a mouse."

FP.
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