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P2 In a SEP

Old 9th Oct 2015, 10:58
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P2 In a SEP

I have just had a conversation with a friend of mine who was saying that he thinks it is possible to fly P2, and therefore count the hours in your log book, in a SEP.

Is he correct? I have always been told that you can't fly P2 in a SEP...
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 11:12
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There's only one pilot in a SEP, unless there's a qualified instructor and pilot
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 11:18
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You can fill every seat in a SEP with a pilot. However....

CG
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 11:33
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it depends from an aircraft certification, most SEPs require 1 crew so P2 is considered supernumerary and as such - hours should not be logged, however - An 2 is also a SEP, but for some operations may require 2 pilots.

nothing to do with class rating really
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 12:38
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count the hours in your log book,
Excellent choice of wording Londonblue... A person (not even a pilot) can write whatever they want in their logbook. However, only time spent as a qualified and required flight crew member counts for anything. It is simply fraud to attempt to convince someone that you have flying experience which you were not entitled to credit to yourself.

Aside from a role as a qualified and required instructor, an aircraft's type certificate will state if a second pilot is required. For single engined Cessnas, a second pilot is not required.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 12:44
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Having said that what happens if one pilot logs the first half of the flight and the other the second half? IE in an hour flight one acting as P1 for 30 minutes from the left and the other 30 minutes from the right? to save changing over with a landing?

On a long flight of say 4 hours it quite feasible one pilot could go for a rest in the back allowing the other pilot to P1 from the right.

Pace
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 13:43
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Step Turn. Thanks for that!

Basically everyone has confirmed what I thought. You might have P2, but it counts for nothing. This friend (for some reason I haven't got to the bottom of) wants to use P2 as a way to increase his hours. My argument was that it doesn't count because my plane (PA 28) doesn't require 2 pilots.

That's apart from the fact that he's not insured!
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 14:20
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Londonblue
This friend (for some reason I haven't got to the bottom of) wants to use P2 as a way to increase his hours. My argument was that it doesn't count because my plane (PA 28) doesn't require 2 pilots.
Thats easy to explain, its your aircraft you both go flying together, he gets you to log P2 so effectively he has now become P1 for the purpose of gaining hours in the eyes of the CAA for future ratings.

If then queried by the authority at sometime in the future when he applies for a rating using illegally obtained hours, they check his log book its shows P1, they check your log book it shows P2, guess who is right in the eyes of the CAA ?
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 14:20
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In SEP VFR there is no P2, except for some special planes under specific circumstances. In your logbook you are free to write whatever you want, even your hours spent in an airliner holiday traveling or write a love poem. But, you cannot claim these "fun hours" for anything. If you are flying 150 hours a year and write down the 2 hours on the right seat with a friend to keep track for your personal feelings, who cares? If you are flying the bare minimum hours and claim these right seat hours for BFR, then it is getting dangerous and should be fetched by the FI/FE check.

Last edited by ChickenHouse; 13th Oct 2015 at 01:28.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 14:31
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Not this old chestnut AGAIN!
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 14:36
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Nobody's mentioned the Left Hand Seat yet - only a matter of time. Pity there isn't a Groundhog Smiley.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 14:54
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I only have a front and rear seat, does that count
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 15:53
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Nobody's mentioned the Left Hand Seat yet
Okay.... The seat to be occupied by the pilot flying may be specified for the type - or may not. The Cessna Caravan is the only single Cessna I'm aware of for which the seat to be occupied by the pilot is specified. I cannot speak for other types.

what happens if one pilot logs the first half of the flight and the other the second half?
A few things:

Neither pilot completes a whole flight, so morally cannot claim a flight's worth of experience for the time logged.

One of those pilots might not have legitimately flown the aircraft in the sense of being insured for the flight, current in the aircraft, and entitled to fly the aircraft by its owner.

At least one of the pilots did not take responsibility for the flight in a PIC sense (there was someone else there to babysit them). I note that experience I have had while flying alone, or in the company of non pilot pax has been much more valuable in terms of building confidence and experience than while I was a second pilot. On your own, it's up to you - that's what makes a pilot!

Pilots who play games with their record of experience embarrass us all....
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 16:16
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Thats easy to explain, its your aircraft you both go flying together, he gets you to log P2 so effectively he has now become P1 for the purpose of gaining hours in the eyes of the CAA for future ratings.

If then queried by the authority at sometime in the future when he applies for a rating using illegally obtained hours, they check his log book its shows P1, they check your log book it shows P2, guess who is right in the eyes of the CAA ?
Not quite, he wanted to log his hours as P2.
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 16:21
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he wanted to log his hours as P2
I wonder what the specified duties for "P2" would be for a light SEP, in accordance with its type design... Ah... none....
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Old 9th Oct 2015, 16:59
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Search this forum for "logging hours"...

e.g. http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...ing-hours.html

SD
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 12:02
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For single engined Cessnas, a second pilot is not required.
There are some C208 operations that require two on the flight deck, whilst some twin operations can be conducted with one on the flight deck.

The number of engines or the size of the aircraft are factors, similarly the requirements for the specific operation as determined by the governing authority, with the insurance carrier likely to play some part in the decision.
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Old 11th Oct 2015, 12:46
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There are some C208 operations that require two on the flight deck,
I'm sure that's true, but that's an operational requirement, not an aircraft type requirement. In the context of this thread, it has little impact....
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 10:55
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P2 In a SEP
I have just had a conversation with a friend of mine who was saying that he thinks it is possible to fly P2, and therefore count the hours in your log book, in a SEP.

Is he correct? I have always been told that you can't fly P2 in a SEP...
The short answer is yes it is possible, conditional upon it being an operational requirement, and that you have an appropriate rating...
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Old 12th Oct 2015, 12:59
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yes it is possible, conditional upon it being an operational requirement, and that you have an appropriate rating...

Flyems, would you describe the requirements and rating which entitle a non instructor to log P2 hours in an SEP aircraft?
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