Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

P2 In a SEP

Old 15th Oct 2015, 18:29
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You can write what you like in your log book just be very very very careful about trying to claim time illegally towards the issue or revalidation of a rating.......

By illegal I mean one of, but not limited to, 2 pilots claiming the same flight time, a pilot claiming P2 in an aircraft certified for only one crew, claiming flight time in an aircraft as commander that you are not qualified to fly or as a student without an instructor. Thats a few but the list can go on.

Before we generate even more pages of drivel. The answer is simple, there is no P2 in a SEP regardless of what duties you performed.
S-Works is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 18:33
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Philippines
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Amen to that!!!
SpannerInTheWerks is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 20:29
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Drivel is good. There's a lot of it on this forum !

Let me don my explicit hat.

Two. both rated on type go somewhere. It is agreed that Pilot A will, for the duration of the flight be the flight commander. He does the departure and ten minutes into the flight asks pilot B beside him to fly the rest of the way and ten minutes from destination he, P1, will do the arrival.

P1 logs 20 mins. handling time and his mate logs the balance as P2.
Capt Kremmen is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 21:12
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Drivel is not good for aviation.

P1 logs 20 mins. handling time and his mate logs the balance as P2
... is drivel.
9 lives is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 21:17
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
P1 logs 20 mins. handling time and his mate logs the balance as P2.
FFS..... He can't. Simple.
S-Works is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2015, 23:32
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: gashbag
Age: 52
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Now listen up chaps, i have had a great idea. All this EASA/FAA/TC/DGAC/ETC stuff is far to complicated. Let's just put the books in a big pile in the corner and make this sh1t up as we go along.

No?

Thought not.
PURPLE PITOT is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2015, 08:44
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Let's just put the books in a big pile in the corner and make this sh1t up as we go along.
Since that is precisely what the UK CAA has been doing for the past 3 years, it's probably not a bad idea. The trick is, of course, not to put any of it in writing.
BillieBob is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2015, 10:53
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,088
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Since that is precisely what the UK CAA has been doing for the past 3 years,
They've been doing that for at least the 3 decades+ that I've been an instructor.


MJ

Ps. I agree with both ST, and Bose. You can put whatever you like in your logbook, but, in a SP SEP, P2=Passenger.
Mach Jump is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2015, 10:56
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
AFAIK commercial operations is not permitted IFR SEP in EASAland, but I positively know that i.e. local German regulations require a 2-crew for private D-reg IFR SEP, in case the aircraft is not equipped with a 2-axis autopilot and altitude hold.
Well, yes and no, ChickenHouse.

The German regulations do require a 2nd person, but only specify that person needs to be authorized to operate the radio in English. It's not actually required they hold a pilot licence. Calling it "2-crew" (and logging it as such) is therefore rather dubious and probably unjustifiable.

The details are in LuftBO 32 Zusammensetzung der Flugbesatzung.
Wrong Stuff is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2015, 11:45
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
AFAIK commercial operations is not permitted IFR SEP in EASAland, but I positively know that i.e. local German regulations require a 2-crew for private D-reg IFR SEP, in case the aircraft is not equipped with a 2-axis autopilot and altitude hold.
Well, yes and no, ChickenHouse.

The German regulations do require a 2nd person, but only specify that person needs to be authorized to operate the radio in English. It's not actually required they hold a pilot licence. Calling it "2-crew" (and logging it as such) is therefore rather dubious and probably unjustifiable.

The details are in LuftBO 32 Zusammensetzung der Flugbesatzung.
German "-besatzung" translates to crew and 32 LuftBO is about crew constitution, 32(2) states the necessity for a 2-crew with both pilots holding the appropriate licenses when performing IFR flights, with some exceptions stated in 32(3) for small aircraft. So, in principal you have to have a 2-crew for IFR, but it is not a must in small aircraft. How the regulation details are for logging these hours if two pilots fulfill 32(2)? No idea, as well as this comes together with overruling EASA "treatment".
ChickenHouse is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 16:08
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: BHX
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sorry to revive a not so old thread, but I have a similar question.

Friend of mine owns an extra 300 and I do some flying with him. He is not an instructor, but simply an unlimited aerobatic pilot with mega experience.

I fly with him and I need x amount of hours on type for insurance to cover me.

I can fly the plane no problems but I cannot log it due to insurance requirement, so I'm not P1 yet, but with him on board I do my flying.

My question is can these hours be logged as p2( dual time ) or am I wasting my time?

Thanks in advance!
Citationcj2 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 16:14
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My question is can these hours be logged as p2( dual time ) or am I wasting my time?
(1) You can write whatever you like in your log book.

(2) What you can't do is count those hours towards any licence or rating, as they don't count as P1 (because you weren't), they don't count as Pu/t (because the other guy isn't an instructor), and they don't count as P2 (because there's no such thing).

(3) Whether the insurance company counts such flying, which you're doing with the legal status of a passenger, towards their requirements or not is a matter for the insurance company - you'll have to ask them.
Gertrude the Wombat is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 16:17
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 26,581
Received 165 Likes on 63 Posts
You're wasting your time....

....unless, that is, you can suggest to him that he becomes a CRI(aeros). Hardly difficult - some sticky-pen training and 3 hours of flight instruction plus an assessment of competence. Then you could log all your time with him as PU/T.
BEagle is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 18:37
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: BHX
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some great advice guys, that sums it up so

I think i'll just head over to Cambridge aeroclub and get my rating there and then worry about it.

Cheers,
Citationcj2 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 18:39
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, you can write the hours in your logbook, but, No, you cannot claim these hours for ratings or license issues. If it is only insurance, talk to them and ask wether they need PIC hours or accept such alternate training you receive. And further, No, you are not wasting time, independent of rating or license, as you learn to fly the beastie with your friend and that does much more real value than any piece of paper.
ChickenHouse is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2015, 22:47
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, you can write the hours in your logbook, but, No, you cannot claim these hours for ratings or license issues. If it is only insurance, talk to them and ask wether they need PIC hours or accept such alternate training you receive. And further, No, you are not wasting time, independent of rating or license, as you learn to fly the beastie with your friend and that does much more real value than any piece of paper.
Yes.

And in particular:

you are not wasting time, independent of rating or license, as you learn to fly the beastie with your friend and that does much more real value than any piece of paper.
9 lives is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.