Correct way of logging hours?

[FL028]

Hello guys

During my PPL I was taught by my instructor to log hours according to the Tachometer.

For instance, if we flew 0.5 on the tach, the block time was equal to 30 min, and
0.6 = 36 mins
0.7 = 42 mins
0.8 = 48 mins and so on

Here when I have finished I have flown with a bunch of different guys, all seems to log hours a bit different to me.

For instance some of them have logged 45 mins block eventhough the tach only has counted 0.6, which according to my previous instructor could give maximum 36 mins block time?!

So I want to hear what is the correct way of doing it? Should I just round up/ down and not care about the tach too much?

Hope the question makes sense

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I do block to block as measured by my watch, rounded to nearest 5 minutes.

[Mach Jump]

Hi FL028. Welcome to PPRuNe.

Airborne time should be logged in the aircraft logbooks.

There are several methods of approximating 'airborne time', (some of which, by 'coincidence' tend to minimise progress towards the next maintenance check! ) but, strictly speaking you should record the actual time between liftoff and touchdown.

In Pilot logbooks, the actual time between the first moment the aircraft moves, under it's own power, with the intention of flight, and, when it finally comes to a stop, after flight (block times) should be logged.

As with airborne time, people have found various ways to approximate 'block time', (some of which, by 'coincidence' seem to exaggerate the pilot's apparent experience! ) but actual times should be used.


MJ

[Piper.Classique]

Well, if you ask ten pilots this you will get eleven answers. If you are hiring, do what the owner says....
The CAA say from when the aircraft starts to taxi until you put the brakes on in the parking area after flight. That's the UK, but I expect it is similar elsewhere. So you need a watch.

[Above The Clouds]

And if there are 4 pilots in the aircraft they are probably all logging it

[FL028]

Thanks for answer guys

Lets say I take a flight this afternoon and I hit 0.5 on the tachometer

I takeoff at 1600 and land again at 1630. This is what I put in the aircraft logbook.

But can I then legally put some "extra" taxi/run up time in my own Pilot logbook? Lets say the block time I write in my logbook is 1550 to 1640. Can I do this without any problems eventhough my block time does not match the tach?

Thanks in advance

[Martin_123]

In my school we do engine start - engine stop times, it pretty much is the same as brakes off, brakes on, as the power checks/warm up happens in a designated area where we need to taxi to.. so it's watch time not tach. Tach time is used by some aircraft owners for rental billing, because that encourages proper startup procedures

[arelix]

MJ is correct, however as he explained is subject to manipulation.
Schools, clubs and renters obviously want a more objective figure on which to charge. The datcon usually gives accurate engine run time, the tacho less so as it is r.p.m. dependent.
Thus you can see why your instructor relates you time/costs in the way you describe, although technically incorrect.

[ChickenHouse]

If I recall correct, logging time is standardized within EASAland and it is Off-Block to On-Block, clarified last year? to be same for plane and pilot. Hobbstime only can be an approximate. I know, reality is distorted and every pilot does different, but there always is a rule back to authorities ...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hobbs is not the same as tacho. Tacho is proportional to engine RPM, whilst Hobbs is linear with time, depending upon how it's turned on and off, which will vary between aircraft.

It is normal on CofA aeroplanes to log take-off to landing for both airframe and engine. Most permit light aircraft do the same.

Microlights, radically, log start to stop for the engine, and brakes-off to brakes-on for the airframe. In theory anyhow, in practice I think that most log brakes-off to brakes-on for both.


For pilot logbooks, brakes-off to brakes-on is ALWAYS correct for civilian pilots (the UK military use take-off to landing - I have no idea about other countries militaries).

Whether you log as a pilot to the nearest minute, five minutes, or decimal time, is entirely a personal choice. In my experience five minutes is most common, followed by decimal time, followed by nearest minute.


Hobbs or Tacho time are not correct for a pilot logbook.

Tacho is often favoured for rental rates, as it's not subject to interpretation, and if you treat the engine gently, the aeroplane is cheaper to rent - which tends to encourage people looking after the aeroplane.

G

[Gertrude the Wombat]

In my school we do engine start - engine stop times

So the punters are paying for the time they spend with engine idle before brakes off setting up the radios, programming the route into the GPS, etc.

I suppose you can do all this before you turn the engine on, but sooner or later isn't someone going to forget to turn off the avionics switch before starting the engine and fry a radio or two? Or is that risk myth?

[dobbin1]

At our school, airborne time is measured by a Hobbs meter activated by an air switch. This time is used in the engine, airframe and prop logs for maintenance purposes. We then add 0.2 (12 minutes) to this number for charging purposes, so a take off to landing flight of 30 minutes would be charged at 0.7. This is a good arrangement since it allows people to taxi slowly and do a proper warm up without having to worry about extra cost.

Pilots log the actual time from chock to chock, usually rounded to the nearest 5 or 6 minutes. This frequently works out as a longer time than the time charged for, especially for students who take a long time doing the power checks and who quite correctly taxy very slowly over the rough grass areas at Redhill.

[Heebicka]

in our club we are logging from brakes to brakes (used for 50hrs&100hrs etc) and from takeoff to landing (used for payment)

[S-Works]

Please.... Search function. I would rather resurrect pink headsets than this old chestnut.

[Martin_123]

So the punters are paying for the time they spend with engine idle before brakes off setting up the radios, programming the route into the GPS, etc.

what GPS? I'm a ppl student, no GPS for me, all done in charts, plogs and all that. Radio is on before engine goes off.. Really like I said, there's no difference, brakes come off like 5 seconds after engine start

[piperboy84]

I use the lazy bastard method, I have a USB plugged in the back of the Garmin GPS with the other end tucked up behind the panel, every few months I take the laptop to the plane plug it in and download into a formatted excel sheet, print then staple in log book, done and dusted with times,dates, locations, day, night and distances .

[Pull what]

During my PPL I was taught by my instructor to log hours according to the Tachometer.

Be very worried, did this instructor have spurs on his boots?

[L'aviateur]

Whilst studying for my PPL I was told to log the time in decimals, it drove me up the wall so post PPL for my own logbook I changed to accurate by the minute, and then if hiring provide the hobbs, tacho (hobbs -0.2 etc) or whatever is required by the organisation.

[BEagle]

FLIGHT TIME

Flight time is defined as follows in the Aircrew Regulation:

"Flight time":

for aeroplanes, touring motor gliders and powered-lift, it means the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight;

for helicopters, it means the total time from the moment a helicopter’s rotor blades start turning until the moment the helicopter finally comes to rest at the end of the flight, and the rotor blades are stopped;

"Flight time under Instrument Flight Rules" (IFR) means all flight time during which the aircraft is being operated under the Instrument Flight Rules.