Question regarding Check outs

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR

The OP refers to a "check out". Perhaps this is "training" in a new type, with differences, in which the instructor has a role as an instructor, and should fly as such.

Or, it might be a few circuits in a an aircraft, within that pilots skills and privileges, just to assure competence for any number of reasons. On the occasions that I have flown a few circuits, or to the next airport for lunch, I'm happy to say as little as I can, unless asked, or have a safety concern. To me, the knowledge that the candidate is acting as PIC for that flight, will reinforce to them their role as PIC. I don't need to be PIC for that flight, they can do it, they should do it. If they do not meet the expectation, we'll talk as required, and if I have to fly (to assure safety), I will. Otherwise, I am a safety system, not an aircraft commander for that flight.

What you are describing is, from the point of view of the other pilot, like IMC in a simulator. You do all the same things as if you were flying a real airplane in real cloud, but at the back of your mind you always know if things go bad you can hit the pause button.

Similarly the guy you are flying a few circuits, or to the next airport, knows that you are not going to let something bad happen. This is IMO is pretend PIC, it is not the kind of PIC you get when you are alone and there is no one to bail you out. So why not call it what it is, instruction ?

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Similarly the guy you are flying a few circuits, or to the next airport, knows that you are not going to let something bad happen. This is IMO is pretend PIC, it is not the kind of PIC you get when you are alone and there is no one to bail you out.

That is absoulutely right. There is, for example, nothing like being in cloud for the first time on your own. Which is after you've got a qualification saying you're perfectly competent at flying in clouds ... which qualification you have earned via a training course which contains exactly zero seconds of being in real cloud on your own.

[mrmum]

mrmum, do you agree that beforehand? That is, do you embark on the flight having told the 'student' that he is in command if the aircraft?

Yes, I do. I know this can be a bit contentious. I don't do it very often, I'm selective who I do this with and have to be pretty sure that they are going to fly safely. However, I accept that there's a risk they might not, then I feel the need to do something, but they are PIC and I'm just pax. Hasn't happened yet, but could be a proper can of worms.

[flyinkiwi]

Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever

I had a bad experience with a check out early in my instructor career. A guy bought a tailwheel aircraft and wanted a check out on the machine. He said he had lots of tailwheel time on type but no recent experience. so the insurance company wanted a checkout. A landing was going bad and so I said "I have control" the aircraft owner responded with "No No I have got it !" and starting fighting my control inputs. We were very fortunate that the aircraft remained on the runway.

After that I vowed that there would be absolute clarity on who did what on these kinds of flights.

This reminds me of a humourous version of this sad tale. Two of the clubs instructors were flying a SuperCub in the local circuit. After a rather bumpy landing the one in the back said, "that landing was a bit rough," to which the guy in front replied, "I thought you were flying!"