NATS to charge for AFPEx access at GA aerodromes
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This whole saga is a gross breach of faith by the CAA and NATS and we should complain loudly to both. We all agreed to go with AfPex as a benefit to to NATS who were able to cut costs as a result o then charge for it is just outrageous and is mostly the CAA's fault. 
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Not sure what all the fuss is about - you need to file a flt plan to go international or IFR in CAS, file it yourself and activate by phone or in the air just as you would flying from a private strip. For inbound internationaly, which is why you need to inbound notification then just email the arrival airfield. This will actually create MORE work for NATs, once they realise this they may have a rethink!
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I had a bit of to-ing and fro-ing with a couple of people at NATS when we got the demand a couple of weeks ago. I said that we're NOT a commercial school, but our constitution prohibits us from making a profit, any surplus funds are ploughed back into the Club. They went away to have a think and I haven't heard since.
We also use our AFPEx account to propose NOTAM. I spoke with the NOTAM office re. an alternative and they sent me a Word pro-forma, a bit clunky having to e-mail proposals; the AFPEx version is easier to use as it sets out things properly with the time and date in the correct format. This is after a considerable struggle to get the ability to publish NOTAM again after we de-licensed. We managed to get our runway closure in for today, but the crane we had in he 23 undershoot had to go through the low flying unit at RAF Wittering, then back to the NOTAM office, with some weird wording.2 months ago, we had the same crane in the same position, no problem through the NOTAM office with sensible wording. Apparently, this is the CAA limiting what we can publish NOTAM about.
I had e-mailed Martin Robinson as we're AOPA members, he said he was on the case but I haven't heard back. Ho hum.
TOO
We also use our AFPEx account to propose NOTAM. I spoke with the NOTAM office re. an alternative and they sent me a Word pro-forma, a bit clunky having to e-mail proposals; the AFPEx version is easier to use as it sets out things properly with the time and date in the correct format. This is after a considerable struggle to get the ability to publish NOTAM again after we de-licensed. We managed to get our runway closure in for today, but the crane we had in he 23 undershoot had to go through the low flying unit at RAF Wittering, then back to the NOTAM office, with some weird wording.2 months ago, we had the same crane in the same position, no problem through the NOTAM office with sensible wording. Apparently, this is the CAA limiting what we can publish NOTAM about.
I had e-mailed Martin Robinson as we're AOPA members, he said he was on the case but I haven't heard back. Ho hum.
TOO
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AFPEx and NOTAM
Just a couple of minor observations if I may:
1. AFPEx falls outside the license obligations of NATS and therefore is purely a business aspect of the service-provide and outwith the CAA's regulatory scope (NATS issued a blog recently on its website to the fact).
2. The CAA has not limited the scope of what can be NOTAM'd; anything that is flight safety relevant such as obstructions or aerodrome status can be NOTAM'd for licensed and unlicensed aerodromes. If anything the fact that unlicensed aerodromes can now have NOTAM issued regarding aerodrome status is a step in the right direction.
Happy to chat more about this offline; please feel free to drop me a PM.
1. AFPEx falls outside the license obligations of NATS and therefore is purely a business aspect of the service-provide and outwith the CAA's regulatory scope (NATS issued a blog recently on its website to the fact).
2. The CAA has not limited the scope of what can be NOTAM'd; anything that is flight safety relevant such as obstructions or aerodrome status can be NOTAM'd for licensed and unlicensed aerodromes. If anything the fact that unlicensed aerodromes can now have NOTAM issued regarding aerodrome status is a step in the right direction.
Happy to chat more about this offline; please feel free to drop me a PM.
Last edited by rej; 29th Feb 2016 at 05:10.
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1. AFPEx falls outside the license obligations of NATS and therefore is purely a business aspect of the service-provide and outwith the CAA's regulatory scope (NATS issued a blog recently on its website to the fact).
Thread Starter
Filing the occasional flight plan for private GA flights, activating a FPL (DEP message), closing a FPL (ARR message) and sending NOTAM Proposals/cancellation = Flight Safety related messages @ less than 20 per month = £2000 per month according to NATS! I feel an MOR against NATS coming on!
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Hi Chevvron,
Yes, indeed, the putative limit is 20 messages a day, but in context we generate fewer than 20 plans a month, just to show how relatively minor our activity is.
Of course, you've also highlighted a dreadful grammatical error in my original. Of course it should have been FEWER, not LESS. Sorry.
Sadly, it seems there is no useful advice emanating from NATS. They are merely pointing us to ICAO 4444 and UK AIP ENR1.10. Guess what it says in ENR1.10? Use AFPEx! Actually, ENR1.10 still maintains the ability to fax a FPL and send the DEP message by telephone. Sadly, we threw our last fax machine away several years ago. I'm not sure they still have the fax facility at Swanwick.
Seriously, if anyone out there has a cost-effective complete solution, then I'd be most grateful to hear about it.
TOO
Yes, indeed, the putative limit is 20 messages a day, but in context we generate fewer than 20 plans a month, just to show how relatively minor our activity is.
Of course, you've also highlighted a dreadful grammatical error in my original. Of course it should have been FEWER, not LESS. Sorry.
Sadly, it seems there is no useful advice emanating from NATS. They are merely pointing us to ICAO 4444 and UK AIP ENR1.10. Guess what it says in ENR1.10? Use AFPEx! Actually, ENR1.10 still maintains the ability to fax a FPL and send the DEP message by telephone. Sadly, we threw our last fax machine away several years ago. I'm not sure they still have the fax facility at Swanwick.
Seriously, if anyone out there has a cost-effective complete solution, then I'd be most grateful to hear about it.
TOO
How about an online email to fax service? Maybe they'll get fed up if everyone starts faxing them again.
Bunch of shysters. Why do these people work in NATS and the CAA if they clearly hate aviation so much? Surely they'd be happier as traffic wardens or TV licence inspectors or similar?
Bunch of shysters. Why do these people work in NATS and the CAA if they clearly hate aviation so much? Surely they'd be happier as traffic wardens or TV licence inspectors or similar?
How about an online email to fax service? Maybe they'll get fed up if everyone starts faxing them again.
Bunch of shysters. Why do these people work in NATS and the CAA if they clearly hate aviation so much? Surely they'd be happier as traffic wardens or TV licence inspectors or similar?
Bunch of shysters. Why do these people work in NATS and the CAA if they clearly hate aviation so much? Surely they'd be happier as traffic wardens or TV licence inspectors or similar?
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I can assure you the people who do the actual operational work in NATS are dedicated to providing services. Unfortunately ever since NATS was privatised, they've employed higher management from other industries with little or no experience of aviation, all they want to do is make money and to hell with the end users.
Thread Starter
If NATS do carry out their threat to disconnect AFPEx from GA airfields, a suggestion for all you fliers, if you need to activate a FPL call London Information 124.75 MHZ/124.60 MHZ (sorry do not have Scottish FIS FREQ to hand) and request they send a Departure message for you. If you want to close a FPL, after landing call London FIS TEL 01489 611970 and ask them to send an Arrival message for you.
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If NATS do carry out their threat to disconnect AFPEx from GA airfields, a suggestion for all you fliers, if you need to activate a FPL call London Information 124.75 MHZ/124.60 MHZ (sorry do not have Scottish FIS FREQ to hand) and request they send a Departure message for you. If you want to close a FPL, after landing call London FIS TEL 01489 611970 and ask them to send an Arrival message for you.
Thread Starter
Heard a rumour that a deal has been brokered with NATS, possibly by the AOA, to provide AFPEx to those GA aerodromes that have been disconnected for £500.00 PA. Anyone have any details? If correct I hope that they don't have the cheek to charge a re-connection fee!
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Not just a rumour as of 22nd June:
NATS launches new AFPEx Lite service - NATS
NATS launches new AFPEx Lite service - NATS
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Well, that's still too steep for us, I'd say for our volume about £100 pa would be the absolute limit. The airfield's struggling to find the £600 pa for the radio licence.
I guess we've kind of got used to the work-rounds for lack of AFPEx. The most serious for me was NOTAM proposals. We now do those via e-mail direct to the NOTAM office.
TOO
I guess we've kind of got used to the work-rounds for lack of AFPEx. The most serious for me was NOTAM proposals. We now do those via e-mail direct to the NOTAM office.
TOO
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Why dont you file an airborne flight plan with those wonderful people at London and Scottish Information as that is part of their remit and it doesn't cost a penny.
