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Is booking out a legal requirement?

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Is booking out a legal requirement?

Old 25th Mar 2015, 13:31
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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No problem if you want to file a flight plan every time you fly, however, in the absence of a FP are you religiously going to inform every airfield you are flying to, of your route, POB and ETA, nah.....
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But that isn't "booking out" which is merely informing the aerodrome operator how long you intend to be airborne in the event of a local flight or where you intend to land if landing away.

There are some airports which will not accept booking out on the radio and they do indeed require details such as endurance and POB.

I don't understand why anyone would find booking out (or whatever you want to call it) so difficult which can only be in the interests of all on board the aircraft.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 13:46
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Well I believe that filing a FP does indeed constitute "booking out", the only benefit to "booking out" as you have identified is if you are on a local, with no intention to land away. Then yes maybe some kind of "overdue" action could be taken but not if it's A/G?, as I said unless the destination is fully aware of your POB, route & ETA then forget any O/D action being taken as the departure airfield will not be ringing up to ensure you have landed safely.
Filing a FP does constitute booking out.

With respect I don't think it is quite as simple as that. I agree that no formal overdue action can/would be taken.

However let's say a pilot does not return home to his nearest and dearest at the expected time because they've had an engine failure and forced landed enroute and been injured etc. Next of kin would call the airfield to enquire whereabouts. If the pilot had booked out then further enquiries could be made at the destination airfield and if necessary the authorities informed. OK I agree it's not the same as filing a FP but rather than being an archaic requirement or red tape I still think it is common sense. What specifically is the objection to doing it?
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 15:28
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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In the old days life was very simple - you could file a flight plan (you had to for some flights) and if you didn't put in a flight plan, at UK aerodromes, you had to 'book out'. A flight plan was a sheet of paper with lots of boxes and funny symbols on it and you had to fill in some of the boxes with weird and wonderful codes.

Then things got more complicated because the term flight plan was re-defined to also mean information that you gave an ATS unit if you free-called. And people stopped talking about booking out, too.

But in the UK Rules of the Air, which I think are still in force despite SERA, Rule 17 (2) says 'The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure, upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that the person in charge of the aerodrome or the air traffic control unit or flight information service unit at the aerodrome is given notice of the landing or departure.'

This is what used to be called booking out. I'm so old now that I think it was Rule 15 when I learned it during my initial training!!
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 15:36
  #24 (permalink)  

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PA28181,

So if you happened to go missing, and you were lying injured on a cold frosty hillside, would you expect the emergency services to go looking for you?
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 16:57
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Where do they start, at the departure airfield and look 5 miles either side of a track that could be 200m long that they have no idea of direction I am taking.
Um, yes? Wouldn't talking to radar units along that route be helpful? - it usually seems to work for post-crash analysis.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 17:42
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Um, yes? Wouldn't talking to radar units along that route be helpful? - it usually seems to work for post-crash analysis.
That was the whole point of filing a flight plan in the old days - it gave you the assurance that someone would come looking for you if you didn't turn up as planned. If you only booked out you were pretty much relying on your mates waiting for you or some innocent passer-by to spot that you needed help.

I know I keep talking about the old days and that life moves on but it seemed like a perfectly sound system at the time.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 17:42
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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It seems that the theme of the discussion has shifted to "would you like someone to watch over you while you fly?".

For myself, I see that as a personal preference, either choice deserving respect. The minute you take "innocent" passengers, you owe it to them to take all precautions in their favour. If you're by yourself in Canada, within 25 miles of where you took off, there is no requirement to tell anyone you went anywhere. Farther than that, flight notification requirements apply.

Personally, for my solo flying, it's none of anyone's business where I come and go. My wife knows where I am, and whom to call, if I'm not where I should be. When I lived alone, with the plane in my back yard, I certainly did not look for anyone to tell I was going flying, I just went. If I crashed, well, that's what I keep an ELT in service for! Now, with cell phone, two different portable radios, a SPOT, still the ELT, and a wife who likes to have a rough idea where I am, I feel pretty secure. As for lying in a crashed plane in the freezing cold, I dress for it before I fly. I don't worry about going for a walk, drive, or ATV ride alone, why would I worry any more about flying alone? My personal best for being alone in the plane, was camping last summer in Labrador, where I believe that I was 93 miles form the nearest other person. But, with a sat phone, and two independent ways to be found, I did not worry! A flight plan really does not work well up there, 'cause unless the sat phone works, you cannot open and close it anyway... I like sat phones, but I would never depend upon one!

When I take my 11 year old daughter camping in the plane, my wife knows, daughter has the cell phone, knows how to activate the SPOT, and has instructions as to how to use the portable radio to ask for help. Similarly, any other passenger gets a briefing, and someone (I choose) knows where we're going.

If an aerodrome wanted to know every time I took off, I would politely say that they are welcomed to look out the window and watch, but writing it down or telling anyone, is an intrusion upon my privacy! Sort of like the rules of listening to public radio transmissions, listen all you want, but do not record or divulge!

So personally, I would rise against what I now understand as a requirement to "book out" when flying my plane. But, that is just my personal preference, and not intended to sway anyone elses preference....
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 18:49
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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"would you like someone to watch over you while you fly?"
or the reverse "nobody should know what or where or how I intend to fly and anybody curious about that is infringing upon my privacy"

That feeling is quite alive among a part of the Belgian microlight fliers. I once heard a story of a long planned group flight abroad, so that in a strictly legal sense filing a flight plan was required. Yet when one participant actually did so, another promptly quit the party, saying that he wouldn't fly in the company of people who didn't respect the proper microlight spirit.

I'm sure that same feeling exists elsewhere too; though it seems to me it is on the recline.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 25th Mar 2015 at 19:08.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 19:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:00
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
Yes, of course. In addition to confusing rules, petty but determined and invasive do-gooders, discussions about the exact way in which one should obey rules (if it can be determined what they are), and on-site comments that other participants are "not short a quid or two" all aviation activity must surely include appropriate fancy dress. Preferably brightly colored and festive uniforms, of which the reflective vest is a perfect example.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.
You've missed one, however.

As well as

- not booking out
- not wearing hi-ris
- turning off the transponder

if you really don't want people to know what you're up to you mustn't forget to

- paint a fake reg on your aircraft (just covering up the real one doesn't hack it, that'll look suspicious)

and of course you need to turn off all your phones/iToys ect ect.

And when you've done all that ... you'll be all set up for your drug- or people-smuggling run!
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 21:16
  #32 (permalink)  

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Speaking as an ex SAR pilot, I can assure you that narrowing the search area even slightly increases the chances of success. The point you are perhaps failing to see is that by widening the area of uncertainty, the resources tied up searching are greatly increased. All at tax payers expense of course, not that of the individual in question.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 22:58
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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First of all - there can only be one set of 'rules of the air'. The 2007 rules have been replaced by SERA. There is a listing on the CAA website of what are referred to as 'retained rules' left overs of the 2007 rules of the air that the CAA has decided to retain. Booking out is not one of them!


As for most of the other comments, there is a massive lack of logic - I have a 760 channel radio, a mode c transponder, a PLB and a mobile phone.

If I need anyone to know where I am I have 4 methods which pinpoint me. I fly in the highlands and believe me there are many, many more people in the hills than you would think. One accident I am aware of the pictures were posted on the internet before the guys even got back to the airfield.....

Booking out is a classic 'small persons' response to a near non-existant problem.
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 23:07
  #34 (permalink)  
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Hey posters, this is a worthwhile discussion, which I'm happy to see continue. But, bits are being lost, as I'm editing out some seemingly personal attacks.

Please play the ball, not the player...
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Old 25th Mar 2015, 23:25
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Am not so sure the Rule does not apply anymore.

I posted a query on the Flying Instructors forum and this is an answer I received:-

The requirement is contained in Rule 17 of the Rules of the Air Regulations and is unaffected by the introduction of Part-SERA. The ANO and Rules of the Air Regulations remain law in the UK unless they conflict with EU regulations.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:44
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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This has piqued my interest and I suspect that the instructors reply was based upon a general understanding - not having read the specifics.

Firstly The Standardised European Rules of the Air (commonly referred to as SERA) took effect across Europe on 4 December 2014 and in the UK superseded most (but not all) of the UK Rules of the Air Regulations 2007.

The old Rule 17(2) states - 2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure, upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that the person in charge of the aerodrome or the air traffic control unit or flight information service unit at the aerodrome is given notice of the landing or departure. which is what most people claim sets the requirement for 'booking out'.

The equivalent SERA clause - which does fully replace the old rules of the air states - SERA.4015 Changes to a Flight Plan
(a) Subject to the provisions of SERA.8020 (b) all changes to a flight plan submitted for an IFR flight, or a VFR flight operated as a controlled flight, shall be reported as soon as practicable to the appropriate air traffic services unit. For other VFR flights, significant changes to a flight plan shall be reported as soon as practicable to the appropriate air traffic services unit.
(b) Information submitted prior to departure regarding fuel endurance or total number of persons carried on board, if incorrect at time of departure, constitutes a significant change to the flight plan and as such shall be reported.


So the emphasis in very much on flight plans or controlled flights - not booking out where borders are not crossed which has been the application by many in the UK.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 16:52
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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His train set - his intellect. Unfortunately symptomatic of why flying can be such a pain in the UK.
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Old 26th Mar 2015, 21:32
  #38 (permalink)  

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The 2007 rules have been replaced by SERA. There is a listing on the CAA website of what are referred to as 'retained rules' left overs of the 2007 rules of the air that the CAA has decided to retain. Booking out is not one of them!
The CAA website outlining changes post SERA does still refer to the term "booking out".
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Old 27th Mar 2015, 09:15
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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But the critical point is that the rules do not.

the difference between what people think or want the rules to say, is often quite different when you read the actual rules.
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Old 29th Mar 2015, 15:19
  #40 (permalink)  
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The consensus would appear to be that it is NOT a legal requirement. I'm not interested in the pros and cons of whether it is a good idea or not. If it was a legal requirement I'd like to see where it is written down but it appears that I can stop looking.
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