PPL SEP - 12 hours of flight time - need clarification
AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of flight time
etc
No, if an aircraft is deemed to be complex enought to require two pilots it would not be certificated as SEP!
(b) Logging of time:
(1) PIC flight time:
(i) the holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC;
(4) instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction, instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;
(1) PIC flight time:
(i) the holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC;
(4) instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction, instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;
I'm sure you meant 'not SPA',
Well, you could have resized it - or PM'd me asking me to do it - rather than peremptorily deleting it. It's supposed to be useful for people.
Regardless of the size, which we all know isn't that important, thanks for the huge effort that this table must have taken to compile.
I'm sure it will be of use to many people.
No, if an aircraft is deemed to be complex enough to require two pilots it would not be certificated as SEP!
Has anyone on PPRune got an AN2 Type Rating?
MJ
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No, if an aircraft is deemed to be complex enough to require two pilots it would not be certificated as SEP!
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...lot-plane.html
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Any aircraft that is thrust forward by a propeller powered by one, piston driven, engine is by definition an SEP.
However not all SEPs fall in to the EASA 'SEP Class' - The 'TMG Class' for example.
Given the context of this Thread I am sure that when whopity said "SEP" he was simply abbreviating 'SEP Class'
I wonder what Class an aircraft driven by a Wankel engine falls in to?
If it needs two pilots it does not fall within the 'SEP Class'.
The 'SEP Class' means Non-High Performance, Single Pilot, SEPs. Any other SEP (which is not a TMG) would need a Type (or possibly an HP Class) Rating that would only be valid for one year and could not be revalidated by experience.
Revalidating an SEP Class Rating by experience requires that experience to have been obtained in an 'SEP Class' - with certain possible exceptions (eg valid experience gained in a TMG) which are stated in the regulations.
Since it is a Single Pilot Rating I cannot see that any Multi Pilot flying experience could be counted towards the revalidation requirements of an SEP Rating.
However not all SEPs fall in to the EASA 'SEP Class' - The 'TMG Class' for example.
Given the context of this Thread I am sure that when whopity said "SEP" he was simply abbreviating 'SEP Class'
I wonder what Class an aircraft driven by a Wankel engine falls in to?
I'm not sure about EASA aircraft, but AN-2 is a SEP that needs 2 pilots
The 'SEP Class' means Non-High Performance, Single Pilot, SEPs. Any other SEP (which is not a TMG) would need a Type (or possibly an HP Class) Rating that would only be valid for one year and could not be revalidated by experience.
Revalidating an SEP Class Rating by experience requires that experience to have been obtained in an 'SEP Class' - with certain possible exceptions (eg valid experience gained in a TMG) which are stated in the regulations.
Since it is a Single Pilot Rating I cannot see that any Multi Pilot flying experience could be counted towards the revalidation requirements of an SEP Rating.
Last edited by Level Attitude; 22nd Feb 2015 at 00:12.
According to the AN-2 flight manual:
Since, in every case, there is the option not to carry two pilots, the AN-2 cannot be classified as a MPA and being below 5700kg MTOW, therefore, can be flown with an SEP class rating, as I occasionally have.
The minimum number of airplane crew are two persons with current authorisation for performing aviation operations.
Depending on the type of flight the airplane crew shall consists of:
- in flights according to VFR rules - two pilots or pilot and navigator or pilot and flight engineer;
- in flights acc. to IFR rules - two pilots or pilot and navigator;
- in agricultural flights - two pilots or pilot and flight engineer.
Depending on the type of flight the airplane crew shall consists of:
- in flights according to VFR rules - two pilots or pilot and navigator or pilot and flight engineer;
- in flights acc. to IFR rules - two pilots or pilot and navigator;
- in agricultural flights - two pilots or pilot and flight engineer.
The 'SEP Class' means Non-High Performance, Single Pilot, SEPs. Any other SEP (which is not a TMG) would need a Type (or possibly an HP Class) Rating
...and being below 5700kg MTOW,
MJ
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To be flown on an SEP Rating it is not that the AN2 is not an MPA it is that it must be an SPA.
Guess it depends on whether the above means 'one pilot by themselves' or 'one pilot even if they need other non-pilot crew to help them'.
I don't know the answer, but I would look to see how EASA has classified this particular aircraft?
Part-FCL Definitions: ‘Single-pilot aircraft’ means an aircraft certificated for operation by one pilot.
I don't know the answer, but I would look to see how EASA has classified this particular aircraft?
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What would be best is if they delegated the 2 yearly flight completely to a FI who then endorses the logbook saying that the requirements had been met, without the need for a FE.
Otherwise you might just as well do the flight with a FE in the first place and be done with it. There are more FIs or CRIs available than FEs, and anyone who is not part of a flying club or at an airfields with an FE has to go out and find one.
Otherwise you might just as well do the flight with a FE in the first place and be done with it. There are more FIs or CRIs available than FEs, and anyone who is not part of a flying club or at an airfields with an FE has to go out and find one.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Informa...ice2014188.pdf
Not just any old FI, though - they will need to be individually authorised to do this.
I'm not quite sure why that Para 2.10 refers to CRI(A); individuals with only that qualification can't instruct for the SEP/TMG Ratings, so surely are ineligible.
2.10 Revalidation of SEP and TMG ratings by FI(A) and CRI(A)
A new paragraph FCL.945 is to be added to make provision for instructors who conduct the training flight for SEP or TMG revalidation by experience to be individually authorised by the Competent Authority to endorse the revalidation page of the pilot’s licence. This will enable the CAA to introduce a Part-FCL equivalent to the “Revalidation Examiner Certificate”
previously issued under national rules. Only instructors with the privileges to instruct for the SEP and/or TMG rating will be eligible to be authorised.
A new paragraph FCL.945 is to be added to make provision for instructors who conduct the training flight for SEP or TMG revalidation by experience to be individually authorised by the Competent Authority to endorse the revalidation page of the pilot’s licence. This will enable the CAA to introduce a Part-FCL equivalent to the “Revalidation Examiner Certificate”
previously issued under national rules. Only instructors with the privileges to instruct for the SEP and/or TMG rating will be eligible to be authorised.
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A CRI(A) with SEP and TMG can conduct the training flight for those ratings. Where a person also holds a licence and wishes to add either of those ratings the CRI(A) can also can conduct the training.
In fact the very purpose of a CRI(A) is to add ratings to a licence......
In fact the very purpose of a CRI(A) is to add ratings to a licence......
OK, thanks - I wasn't aware that a CRI could instruct for TMG if student holds a current SEP Rating (and vice versa). Then again, I suppose the clue is in the name...
Of course, there are many other Ratings a CRI can't instruct for: Night, Aeros (?), IR(R) etc.
Of course, there are many other Ratings a CRI can't instruct for: Night, Aeros (?), IR(R) etc.
Last edited by hoodie; 24th Feb 2015 at 12:53.
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SEP(L) - Revalidation
Hi,
I hold a PPL(A) on an EASA licence. My question relates to the currency of my licence. The expiry date on my SEP(L) class rating indicates it expired on the 30th June 2014. However, on the 30th June 2014 I had met all the requirements of the "revalidation by experience" ie number of hours, t/o & landings, P1 hours, etc., including an IR(A) revalidation (>1hr and flown ie not sim) in September 2013. Happy I was current, I assumed my licence was still valid. An instructor, however, suggested that my licence is not current as it lacks a sign-off from an examiner, specifically for the purpose of SEP(L) revalidation. Naturally, the IR(A) reval. was passed and endorsed, so no issues with my flying (that was spotted anyway!).
A quote from the UK CAA's website states...
"In this example, to make sure that an SEP(land) rating does not expire and continues for another 2 year period, it can be revalidated by:
No mention of a sign-off is made.
Anyone have a view as to whether I actually have a valid licence?
Thanks.
I hold a PPL(A) on an EASA licence. My question relates to the currency of my licence. The expiry date on my SEP(L) class rating indicates it expired on the 30th June 2014. However, on the 30th June 2014 I had met all the requirements of the "revalidation by experience" ie number of hours, t/o & landings, P1 hours, etc., including an IR(A) revalidation (>1hr and flown ie not sim) in September 2013. Happy I was current, I assumed my licence was still valid. An instructor, however, suggested that my licence is not current as it lacks a sign-off from an examiner, specifically for the purpose of SEP(L) revalidation. Naturally, the IR(A) reval. was passed and endorsed, so no issues with my flying (that was spotted anyway!).
A quote from the UK CAA's website states...
"In this example, to make sure that an SEP(land) rating does not expire and continues for another 2 year period, it can be revalidated by:
- completing 12 hours of flight time in SEP(land) aircraft including 6 hours as pilot in command, 12 take-off and 12 landings, and up to three training flights totalling of at least 1 hour with a flight instructor or class rating instructor (or passed a class or type rating proficiency check or skills test in any other class or type of aeroplane) in the 12 months before the rating expires."...
No mention of a sign-off is made.
Anyone have a view as to whether I actually have a valid licence?
Thanks.
If a Class Rating in your licence has passed its validity expiry date, you may not fly as PIC on that class of aeroplane.
You will need to renew your SEP Class Rating by passing a renewal Proficiency Check with an Examiner; the licence may not be signed retrospectively.
Are you really admitting that you haven't had a valid SEP Class Rating in your licence since June 2014?
The fact that you held a valid IR(A) until (I assume) Sep 2014 is irrelevant; a Part-FCL licence has no expiry date, whereas ratings and certificates contained therein certainly do.
Wasn't this covered during your Air Law and Op. Procs theoretical knowledge study?
You will need to renew your SEP Class Rating by passing a renewal Proficiency Check with an Examiner; the licence may not be signed retrospectively.
Are you really admitting that you haven't had a valid SEP Class Rating in your licence since June 2014?
The fact that you held a valid IR(A) until (I assume) Sep 2014 is irrelevant; a Part-FCL licence has no expiry date, whereas ratings and certificates contained therein certainly do.
Wasn't this covered during your Air Law and Op. Procs theoretical knowledge study?
No mention of a sign-off is made.
Anyone have a view as to whether I actually have a valid licence?
Thanks.
Anyone have a view as to whether I actually have a valid licence?
Thanks.
I'm afraid you have fallen for an all too popular misconception.
The minimum experience requirements for Revalidation by Experience of an SEP Class Rating are just the minimum you need to have in your logbook to enable you to revalidate the rating without a Flight Test.
Once you have completed the minimum requirements, an Authorised Person must endorse your licence to extend the validity of your SEP Class Rating for a further 2 years. Although other EASA National Authorities require you to send it to them for endosement, for UK issued EASA Licences, the UK CAA have authorised UK Flight Examiners to do this on their behalf.
As BEagle says, even if you met the minimum requirements before the expiry date of the Rating, it cannot be endorsed retrospectively and your SEP Class Rating has been invalid since 30th June 2014.
Your SEP Class Rating must now be 'Renewed' rather than 'Revalidated'.
To Renew, you must visit an ATO/RF (Flying School) and have the Head of Training there assess what, if any, training you will require to enable you to take the Flight Test (Proficiency Check). Once you have completed any required training, you will be given a Course Completion Certificate (CCC) which you will need to present to the Examiner before taking the Proficiency Check.
On sucessful completion of the Proficiency Check, The Examiner will Endorse your Licence to renew your SEP Class Rating from the date of the Test, for another 2 years.
MJ
Last edited by Mach Jump; 3rd Mar 2015 at 08:36. Reason: Spelling
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MJ covers it very well but it is worth re-emphasising some points as a lot of (especially new) pilots seem confused.
NO - You don't.
You hold an EASA PPL on which there are Ratings.
Although it needs a valid Medical to be used, The Licence does not expire. The Ratings (that you have mentioned) do.
When you pass a Medical exam you have met the requirements to be issued a with Medical Certificate. But you do not actually have a valid Medical until you have been given the signed piece of paper.
When you applied for your PPL you had met the requirements to be issued with a Licence but you did not have a PPL until you had received the piece of paper and signed it yourself.
Rating Revalidation is the same:
For SEP(Land) there are two methods of meeting the requirements:
a) Passing a Proficiency Check with an Examiner
or
b) Having the required experience (as you correctly stated)
Once the requirements are met, that entitle you to Revalidate, you still need to actually Revalidate (in this case get an Examiner to complete the entry in the Ratings section of your Licence)
No Examiner entry = No Revalidation
I hold a PPL(A) on an EASA licence
You hold an EASA PPL on which there are Ratings.
Although it needs a valid Medical to be used, The Licence does not expire. The Ratings (that you have mentioned) do.
When you pass a Medical exam you have met the requirements to be issued a with Medical Certificate. But you do not actually have a valid Medical until you have been given the signed piece of paper.
When you applied for your PPL you had met the requirements to be issued with a Licence but you did not have a PPL until you had received the piece of paper and signed it yourself.
Rating Revalidation is the same:
For SEP(Land) there are two methods of meeting the requirements:
a) Passing a Proficiency Check with an Examiner
or
b) Having the required experience (as you correctly stated)
Once the requirements are met, that entitle you to Revalidate, you still need to actually Revalidate (in this case get an Examiner to complete the entry in the Ratings section of your Licence)
No Examiner entry = No Revalidation