lapl and ppl

[md 600 driver]

In easa land is it possible to have a lapl and a ppl at the same time

[Pete O'Tewbe]

You may wish to see this thread, particularly posts numbers 2 and 3.

[DeltaV]

When I applied for a LAPL the application form had a tickbox which gave the option to retain the NPPL to run concurrently. I took that option so now have both NPPL and LAPL with TMG.

[Monocock]

Yes.

I have a PPL and a LAPL.

[sharpend]

I have an EASA PPL and also a UK PPL as one needs an EASA for EASA aircraft, but some aircraft, such as Bulldogs, are not EASA, so one still needs a UK PPL.

[Prop swinger]

Originally Posted by sharpend

I have an EASA PPL and also a UK PPL as one needs an EASA for EASA aircraft, but some aircraft, such as Bulldogs, are not EASA, so one still needs a UK PPL.

. . . erm, an EASA licence is valid for non-EASA aircraft (at least in the UK.)

[BackPacker]

. . . erm, an EASA licence is valid for non-EASA aircraft (at least in the UK.)

True. However, you need to understand the legal situation.

EASA does not set rules wrt. to non-EASA aircraft. It's up to the local authorities to set rules for maintenance, licensing and whatnot.

The UK has decided that you can fly a non-EASA aircraft either on the appropriate EASA license (EASA LAPL, PPL, CPL, ATPL), or on the appropriate UK license (UK NPPL, UK PPL and so forth).

In the UK you can therefore hold both a non-EASA license (eg. NPPL), and an EASA license (eg. LAPL) for the same class of aircraft. But you cannot hold two EASA licenses (eg. LAPL and PPL) for the same class of aircraft.

Other EASA countries might not issue or support non-EASA licenses anymore. In those cases, the only license that the local authority allows to fly a non-EASA aircraft, is an EASA license. But that's something that's written down in local law, not in the EASA legislation.

[Mach Jump]

In easa land is it possible to have a lapl and a ppl at the same time

No.

You cannot, at the same time hold more than one EASA Licence for the same category of aircraft. ie. 'Baloons' 'Aeroplanes' 'Helicopters' etc.

In the UK, you can hold both an EASA Licence, and a UK National Licence for the same category of aircraft, but the UK Nationmal Licence is restricted to LAPL privileges, until 8th April 2018, after which it will be valid for Annex II aircraft only.


MJ

[David Roberts]

Mach jump has the terminology right - 'category' of aircraft not 'class' of aircraft. One can have only one EU licence for each category of aircraft - aeroplane, helicopter, glider / sailplane, balloon.

[condor17]

I've seen this one licence restriction a lot lately .... and being an NFN ''Boi''. I did/do not understand , especially as my EASA licence on the front says Flight Crew Licence and on the A4 sheet then describes which licence ... The CAA kindly typed ATPL , CPL , and PPL ; and as I understand it ....... On the day I can decide which licence and which privileges I wish to use .

Yours confused ,

condor .

[patowalker]

. . . erm, an EASA licence is valid for non-EASA aircraft (at least in the UK.)

When I asked the DGAC if I could fly my G-reg homebuilt in France on an LAPL, their reply hinted that it was a silly question and they referred me to Article 11 of EU Regulation 216/2008, which reads:

Recognition of certificates
1. Member States shall, without further technical requirements or evaluation, recognise certificates issued in accordance with this Regulation. When the original recognition is for a particular purpose or purposes, any subsequent recognition shall cover only the same purpose or purposes.

[ChickenHouse]

. . . erm, an EASA licence is valid for non-EASA aircraft (at least in the UK.)

I believe this is too short sighted. EU/EASA regulations are not issued by a state named EU, but a country being part of the EU. As far as I remember, i.e. a N-reg plane flown in EASA airspace can be piloted with an EASA license, but only in the country the EASA license was issued. If you fly a N-reg in the UK, but have an Italian EASA PPL, you have to have a FAA validation for foreign license. Am I correct?

[patowalker]

By non-EASA aircraft I think he meant Annex II aircraft. Nothing to do with the country of registration.

[Mach Jump]

When I asked the DGAC if I could fly my G-reg homebuilt in France on an LAPL, their reply hinted that it was a silly question...

Each National Authority decides what Licence is required to fly their own Annex II aircraft.

The UK CAA has decided that any EASA Licence, appropriate to the aircraft type, is acceptable, in addition to UK National Licences.

As a LAPL is valid throughout EASA, you can fly your Uk registered homebuilt anywhere within EASA.

You will need French DGAC approval though, to operate a UK registered 'Permit to Fly' aircraft in France.

...especially as my EASA licence on the front says Flight Crew Licence and on the A4 sheet then describes which licence ... The CAA kindly typed ATPL , CPL , and PPL ; and as I understand it ....... On the day I can decide which licence and which privileges I wish to use .

You still only have one Licence, but it embodies the privileges of all the ones listed. You can't have seperate PPL,CPL, or ATPL for the same Category of aircraft at the same time.


MJ

Ps.

It's worth noting that, due to an oversight in the drafting of Part.FCL, a PPL, unlike an ATPL and a CPL, does not include the privileges of a LAPL!

This means that if you let your Medical lapse to a LAPL one, you can only use it with an ATPL, CPL, LAPL, or NPPL, but not with a PPL!.

MJ

[BEagle]

Mach Jump wrote:

This means that if you let your Medical lapse to a LAPL one, you can only use it with an ATPL, CPL, LAPL, or NPPL, but not with a PPL!

They're proposing to include LAPL privileges within the PPL. Which could well lead to utter confusion, due to the lack of 'Ratings' and different validity requirements. A pilot could well fly something like a C152 'using LAPL privileges', but with a lapsed SEP Class Rating. So what happens when he gets his medical back - does he now need to fly a proficiency check in order to renew his SEP Class Rating?

Fair enough to find a way of letting a pilot continue to fly if his Class 2 lapses, but meets LAPL medical requirements. My recommendation is simply to restrict his SEP Class Rating to the same 2000 kg / 4 PoB / EASA MS only limits as the LAPL, but to maintain the Class rating as normal.

[Mach Jump]

A pilot could well fly something like a C152 'using LAPL privileges', but with a lapsed SEP Class Rating. So what happens when he gets his medical back - does he now need to fly a proficiency check in order to renew his SEP Class Rating?

Yes.

This is already the situation with SEP Class Ratings on CPLs and ATPLs.

The flight time should still count towards the Revalidation of an SEP, so, if people allow their SEP to lapse, they are in the same situation as someone who has forgotten to get their licence signed by the due date, and they should have to Renew it just like anyone else.


MJ

Ps.

With the ever increasing complexity of Revalidation/Currency requirements, do you really think that the majority of ordinary people still even care if their LAPLs/SEPs/SSEAs are still valid or not?

MJ

[ChickenHouse]

I admit, I am lost a bit. Wasn't the EASA world meant to be easier and unique throughout the whole EU? So a Part.FCL PPL(A) really does not include a LAPL?

[Mach Jump]

Wasn't the EASA world meant to be easier...

That was one of a bunch of lies we have been told over the past 15 years to first justify the debacle that was JAA, and now the even worse EASA.


MJ

[patowalker]

You will need French DGAC approval though, to operate a UK registered 'Permit to Fly' aircraft in France.

Not according to this exchange of emails:

From: 'Fonction Licences-Navigants' envoyé par Jean-Pierre Boivin <[email protected]>
To: Donald Walker
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013, 13:51
Subject: Re: Reconnaisance de licence LAPL(A) délivrée par la CAA Britannique

Bonjour,

Du point de vue licences, l'article 11 du règlement 216/2008 du 20 février 2008 stipule dans son §1 que les Etats membres reconnaissent sans exigence ni évaluation technique supplémentaire, les certificats délivrés conformément au présent règlement.
La licence LAPL(A) délivrée par l'Autorité britannique entrant dans ce cas de figure, vous pouvez volez en France avec cette licence.

Cordialement
DGAC/DSAC/PN/licences
Jean-Pierre BOIVIN

Le 30/01/2013 13:11, Donald Walker a écrit :

Bonjour,
Je suis titulaire d’une licence EASA Part-FCL LAPL(A) délivrée par la CAA Britannique et voudrais savoir si je suis autorisé à effectuer en France des vols à bord de mon avion de construction amateur immatriculé au registre du Royaume-Uni de Grande Bretagne.
Cordialement.
Donald WALKER

[Mach Jump]

You will need French DGAC approval though, to operate a UK registered 'Permit to Fly' aircraft in France.

It's not a Licensing thing.

An LAA permit to fly is only valid outside the UK with the approval of the National Authority of the country in which you want to fly.


MJ