why oh why does flaring suck the lemon :-(
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Most texts would call your (2) the roundout, and your (3) the flare.
Also in Canada we turn final...not finals.
What one aims for is changing the approach path from a descent attitude to the level attitude about fifteen feet above the surface and allowing the speed and lift to decay so as to touch down at or just above the stall.
The above can be done at any airspeed, bearing in mind at a high speed the hold off portion will be longer due to the higher speed and use up more of the landing surface before touch down.
And remove boxing gloves and clogs before flight. Seriously, try to feel the weight of the aircraft in your hands as you try to keep it off the ground.
So, aim at the ground. Then just miss it, and keep on trying not to touch it. This will give you a mainwheel first landing with a nosedragger, three point with conventional gear. For a wheeler on conventional gear wait until the mainwheels are rolling then hold the tail up. It may take more than one attempt to get this right, but in principal you are putting the aircraft back where it was before you went flying. Now stop. Remove it from the runway at a reasonable pace. This would be a brisk trot for the young and fit, bike speed for the old and decrepit.
Preferably round out on the threshold. Unless the runway is long, and the only exit half way along. My apologies to the aircraft behind me at Cherbourg last time I was there. I think I have a genetic predisposition to landing as short as possible...... But anyway choose your touchdown point, rather than letting it choose you. It should be not far beyond the roundout point, if it is miles past either you had a tailwind component or you were too fast on final approach.
So, aim at the ground. Then just miss it, and keep on trying not to touch it. This will give you a mainwheel first landing with a nosedragger, three point with conventional gear. For a wheeler on conventional gear wait until the mainwheels are rolling then hold the tail up. It may take more than one attempt to get this right, but in principal you are putting the aircraft back where it was before you went flying. Now stop. Remove it from the runway at a reasonable pace. This would be a brisk trot for the young and fit, bike speed for the old and decrepit.
Preferably round out on the threshold. Unless the runway is long, and the only exit half way along. My apologies to the aircraft behind me at Cherbourg last time I was there. I think I have a genetic predisposition to landing as short as possible...... But anyway choose your touchdown point, rather than letting it choose you. It should be not far beyond the roundout point, if it is miles past either you had a tailwind component or you were too fast on final approach.
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Yay, i got it.
Had a lesson Friday night, one saturday and one tonight. All of tonights landings were perfectly acceptable, my instructor was very pleased :-)
Finally got the feel through the stick for flare and hold off
Had a lesson Friday night, one saturday and one tonight. All of tonights landings were perfectly acceptable, my instructor was very pleased :-)
Finally got the feel through the stick for flare and hold off
200 feet back of the threshold, and 30 feet up, I don't really care what your airspeed is, as long as you are able to control the aircraft's speed so as to achieve a suitable flare entry speed as you cross the threshold and an appropriate height. If you want to neatly slip off the 5 knots you carried for the wife and kids, or the gusty day, at the last moments, go ahead. Just enter the flare at a suitable speed (without having ballooned to do it).
Personally I have the best results by starting with a standard circuit. From 500 feet AGL to touchdown the goal is to have everything the same. This reduces the number of variables the student has to deal. When the landings are consistent then we can start deviating from the standard.
I would also add that it is important to specify what a "good" landing is for a new student. Good landings have nothing to do with the softness of the landing, as you can get lucky and get a squeeker out of a truly terrible approach.
What I want to see is a consistent correct pitch attitude on final with deviations from the desired approach flight path recognized and corrected and a touchdown in the proper nose up attitude, aligned with the runway centerline and reasonable close to the desired touchdown point. If the landing meets the above criteria but the touchdown was with a bit of a thud, it is still a good landing.
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The OP has 18 hrs. What you are asking for is simply unrealistic in a student just starting out. "Feel" matters and having that feel for what the aircraft is doing rather than just repeating rote actions separates pilots from aircraft drivers. .......
I would also add that it is important to specify what a "good" landing is for a new student. Good landings have nothing to do with the softness of the landing, as you can get lucky and get a squeeker out of a truly terrible approach.
What I want to see is a consistent correct pitch attitude on final with deviations from the desired approach flight path recognized and corrected and a touchdown in the proper nose up attitude, aligned with the runway centerline and reasonable close to the desired touchdown point. If the landing meets the above criteria but the touchdown was with a bit of a thud, it is still a good landing.
I would also add that it is important to specify what a "good" landing is for a new student. Good landings have nothing to do with the softness of the landing, as you can get lucky and get a squeeker out of a truly terrible approach.
What I want to see is a consistent correct pitch attitude on final with deviations from the desired approach flight path recognized and corrected and a touchdown in the proper nose up attitude, aligned with the runway centerline and reasonable close to the desired touchdown point. If the landing meets the above criteria but the touchdown was with a bit of a thud, it is still a good landing.
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Seems to be improving
Next lesson (after several weeks) in pa28 one go around from stable approach, three landings with instructor and then three solo.
Not sure that did much different to last time except followed advice to reduce the throttle slightly earlier so slower at the numbers and possibly more relaxed as a year older (and wiser?)
New problem in that after power checks for solo shower of rain arrived so taxied back to club for 10 mins while it passed. Then on take off run discovered I had the not fully secured the door when I got back in. Fortunately enough runway to reject takeoff and FISO backtracked me as no one else I the circuit. I had also asked for airfield information on the frequency of another close by airport as I had set but not changed to the local frequency when I got back in. (Don't think it was heard as I got no reply) Felt a bit like early circuits again having to cope with high level of workload - other than in being on the ground instead of in the air.
Not sure that did much different to last time except followed advice to reduce the throttle slightly earlier so slower at the numbers and possibly more relaxed as a year older (and wiser?)
New problem in that after power checks for solo shower of rain arrived so taxied back to club for 10 mins while it passed. Then on take off run discovered I had the not fully secured the door when I got back in. Fortunately enough runway to reject takeoff and FISO backtracked me as no one else I the circuit. I had also asked for airfield information on the frequency of another close by airport as I had set but not changed to the local frequency when I got back in. (Don't think it was heard as I got no reply) Felt a bit like early circuits again having to cope with high level of workload - other than in being on the ground instead of in the air.
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don't worry about the door being not shut its not a big one. Its certainly not worth going off the end of the runway because of.
Just ignore it and get up to cruise height and open the top catch and then open the door catch and give it a pull and it will more than likely shut and then shut the top catch. If its still open a bit don't worry about it the slip stream will keep it shut.
Some instructors myself included when its hot open them anyway on purpose in flight.
Just ignore it and get up to cruise height and open the top catch and then open the door catch and give it a pull and it will more than likely shut and then shut the top catch. If its still open a bit don't worry about it the slip stream will keep it shut.
Some instructors myself included when its hot open them anyway on purpose in flight.
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FWIW when I started flying, an aerobatics pilot I know suggested I go and sit at the front, upstairs on a double decker bus in London for a couple of hours [cos thats where I live] and get used to that height. Thats the flare height. Worked for me 90 per cent of the time!
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So that's why I've seen people in the front row upstairs, pulling on that bar across in front of them! 
Think of flaring like this:
You're gliding down toward the runway, everything is stable, and perfect. You're wisely carrying a little extra energy as a few knots for the wife and kids ('cause you're gliding, and cannot burp in a bit of power when you realize you're too low/slow). But, you're going down. You don't want to contact the runway at the rate of descent you have in the glide.
So, you're going to have to arrest that rate of descent to contact gently, rather than a thump. Doing this is to add lift to overcome the gravity which is pulling you to earth. You can't add lift by adding power, 'cause for this discussion, you got none. So all you have is that bit of reserve speed where your energy is stored. You've got only one chance to spend that energy, 'cause when you spend it, it's gone. So don't let it dribble away (losing speed on final) or spend it too early, by flaring early. Your flare, is when you begin to spend. Spend it wisely. If you have too little, spend it all steadily. If you have too much, spend some, then hold, and spend the rest a little (seconds) later. Your flare is just you momentarily arresting a rate of descent, to touch down neatly, seconds later.....
Think of flaring like this:
You're gliding down toward the runway, everything is stable, and perfect. You're wisely carrying a little extra energy as a few knots for the wife and kids ('cause you're gliding, and cannot burp in a bit of power when you realize you're too low/slow). But, you're going down. You don't want to contact the runway at the rate of descent you have in the glide.
So, you're going to have to arrest that rate of descent to contact gently, rather than a thump. Doing this is to add lift to overcome the gravity which is pulling you to earth. You can't add lift by adding power, 'cause for this discussion, you got none. So all you have is that bit of reserve speed where your energy is stored. You've got only one chance to spend that energy, 'cause when you spend it, it's gone. So don't let it dribble away (losing speed on final) or spend it too early, by flaring early. Your flare, is when you begin to spend. Spend it wisely. If you have too little, spend it all steadily. If you have too much, spend some, then hold, and spend the rest a little (seconds) later. Your flare is just you momentarily arresting a rate of descent, to touch down neatly, seconds later.....
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I pick 2 points on the runway..I aim at the top point i.e. if I don't do anything the plane will hit this point very hard..when the second point disappears under the cowling I smoothly go to idle and bring the plane to a "S&L" nose attitude..
For me the length of a runway line seems to work just fine..on grass strips and unmarked I pick spots.. Certainly helps with night landings and certainly overcomes the visual illusions of different runway configs..
my 2c worth
For me the length of a runway line seems to work just fine..on grass strips and unmarked I pick spots.. Certainly helps with night landings and certainly overcomes the visual illusions of different runway configs..
my 2c worth
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Just so Pezzar knows it can happen to any of us, I took my 150 for a flight today. It was rather choppy, but that's no excuse for a bad landing. Though my approach met my personal standards, my landing certainly did not. I three pointed the 150 perfectly, understanding that I never like the nosewheel on at touchdown - so no three piloting tricycle planes! No harm done, but it sure was not the landing I was looking for either!
Every now and then, even us experience pilots muff one. I just hate feeling the nosewheel spin up at touchdown......
So Pezzar, keep working at your landings, and I will too!
Every now and then, even us experience pilots muff one. I just hate feeling the nosewheel spin up at touchdown......
So Pezzar, keep working at your landings, and I will too!
