Robins

[Billy M]

Evening all.

I'm just about to join a flying club and was hoping someone could offer some advice on these aircraft as I have no experience of them. They have the usual Cessnas and Warriors (both of which I have previously flown and enjoyed), but when visiting them today the Robins rather caught the eye.

I have never been flying in one and was hoping you could let me know what they're like to fly? The models they have are a R3000 and some DR400s (with a choice of 108, 120 and 160 engines).

According to the instructor that showed me around, they're very good to fly, but he'd go for a Warrior given the choice. Do you agree?

Any opinions would be gratefully received.

Cheers,
Billy

[Rod1]

DR400’s are very good. I have some time on the small engine ones and about 250 hours on the 160. They are faster and carry more weight than the equivalent Piper, but the 160 uses more runway when at MAUW.

The stick is, in my opinion, much nicer than a yoke and they make excellent instrument platforms. If you are in to touring France then you are much more likely to get it repaired without delay than a Piper.

Depending on the age of the aircraft you may find the layout of the switches and dials a little odd, but this comes with time. I only ever had a problem with this at night.

Get in and have a go!

Rod

[foxmoth]

IMHO Robin is much nicer to fly than the Warrior, if you enjoy flying go for the Robin, if all you want is to be in a machine to go from A to B with the minimum interference from the pilot then you may be better in the Warrior.

[A and C]

The guy thinks that that Warrior is better than the Robin ! Why ?

The Robin DR400 is faster it has a better payload the visibility out of it is much better and it will fly in and out of fields that the PA28 wont look at !.

So Why is the PA28 better ? I can only think that the guy likes metal aircraft as the only advantage for the PA28 is that you dont have to hangar it.

[rhwheeler]

Try the Robin 2160 for exhilarating aerobatics.

You cannot beat the DR-400 for power to weight ratio in a tourer.

Checklists and pre-flight briefings can be downloaded at www.gridline.co.uk

[Keef]

Horses for courses!

The Robin is great in France cos every little airfield can mend it.

The Warrior is great because they are available to hire just about anywhere you go in the flying world. Robins aren't.

If you want to fly into and out of very short fields, you need more power than the Warrior has - so choose its big brother, the Archer.

If you want aerobatics, talk to an aerobatics expert: Chipmunk, Moth, Pitts spring to mind rather than Robin.

No one aircraft is all things to all men; get past the "tifosi polemics" and try them all, to see which you prefer.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Try for yourself!

Having taken up a fair lot of Piper and Cessna drivers in the Robin I have yet to find someone who said they prefer the Pipers and Cessnas.

I think for most schools the metal jobs are a bit better because they are may be a bit less delicate although in France they virtually all use the Robins.

Would agree that the metal 2 seat Robins are not as nice to handle as the cranked wing models. But the view is so good compared to anything american.

[Hairyplane]

Hi Billy M!

I used to teach on the DR400/108 at Rochester many years ago (still see G-BBCH @ 12,000 hours looking very pretty (we rarely hangared them and brushed the snow off in the winter - no problem) and fulfilled a long-term ambition last year by buying a brand new 180 Regent (did you see it on the Robin stand at Aerofair?)

THe Robin is a joy.

From a students perspective I know of no equal.

From an owners perspective, I agree that they should really be hangared but then so should any aircraft - all will deteriorate more quickly out in the weather.

THere are some DR400's in France with more than 25,000 hours on them and they only see the inside of a hangar on maintenance.

Since their inception the DR400's have flown more than 10 million hours without any inflight failure attributable to defective structure (source - Guy Pellisier, MD of APEX Aircraft)

THese are strong machines that look right and fly right.

THere are a few dogs around but this shouldn't be the case with a reputable flying school.

THe visibility from the cockpit is outstanding, control harmonisation is as good as it gets.

FOr a flight test report on the Regent find a copy of Todays Pilot July 2001. FOrtunately you don't quite get to see my ugly mug but you do see lots of pictures of my pretty plane.

GO for the Robin!

[Billy M]

Thanks all, for the replys. Clearly there's no need to think too long about this decision!!!

Sounds like I'm going to enjoy flying it from what you all say, I can't wait. I'll get myself down there just as soon as the hangover from a weekend in Amsterdam begins to soften!!!!!!

Thanks again,
Billy M

[Billy M]

Just a quick update.

Thanks to all who replied and recommended the Robin. I have since flown it a few times (not as many times as I'd have liked, but the combination of wx and my lack of funds has been a bit of a problem recently!!!!) and love it.

Just as soon as the Summer begins to kick in (if it ever does!) I'll be doing a few more trips, hopefully to France.

I do have another quick question though - does anyone know of anywhere on the web that has a checklist for the DR400? I had a look at the link posted above by rhwheeler, but they don't seem to have one for the DR400. Thanks.

Anyway, thanks again to all who posted - you weren't wrong about the Robin, it's far more enjoyable than the Cessnas and Pipers of this world!!!! Now all I need is a flying job, so I can afford to take it up more often!

Cheers
Billy M

P.S. Hairyplane - I read the article, sounds like a great plane. Like the sound of the car too!!

[propjockey]

I am learning to fly in an HR200 and think its great.

At least it looks and flys like a real a/c!

So far I am very pleased and my instructor says if I go fly
something else it will be like flying a brick!



Anyway I am one happy customer and think its a good place to start!

regards

[Aerobatic Flyer]

I agree that the Robin is lovely to fly, and I'd choose it over the Warrior any time. However, the comment by Guy Pellisier quoted by Hairyplane that:

Since their inception the DR400's have flown more than 10 million hours without any inflight failure attributable to defective structure (source - Guy Pellisier, MD of APEX Aircraft)

perhaps isn't quite as clear as it could be. The French investigation into a fatal accident caused when the right wing broke off a DR400-180 stated that the cause was defective gluing of the main spar. Three French ADs have subsequently been issued, and the aircraft is limited to Normal rather than Utility category operations.

The accident report does not apportion blame or responsibility for the accident - merely sets out the facts.

Apex aircraft have subsequently demonstrated that a new wing spar, deliberately made with imperfect gluing, is capable of withstanding load factors well in excess of the statutory requirements. As you can imagine the whole issue is the source of a lot of heated debate in France where the DR400 is by far the most common flying club plane.

They're lovely to fly though. Just make sure that the maintenance is up to date, and don't be tempted to try a loop!

[Hairyplane]

MMMMMmmmm Robin

Hi Billy M

Just got back from a week touring in France in the Regent.

Direct Les Sables D'Olonne (nr La Rochelle) - Turweston in 2hrs and 40 mins. Autopilot on, arms folded, 2xGNS430's giving me all the info - wonderful warm, cozy, light cockpit environment.

I never take these things for granted - I am a lucky ****** shurenough.

Howling 25kt crosswind necessitated a tricky approach into a 300 metre cross-runway. I reckon I stopped in 75 yards - no drama.

The Robin is a remarkable aircraft with a proven track record. Piece of pee to fly.

A bespoke machine that is just that bit special. Why oh why are there so many dogs around? They deserve better. Mine, 18 months old and 200 hours, is like brand new.

MMMMMmmmmm!

[Billy M]

Hi Hairyplane,

Sounds like a great trip and a fine aircraft to do it in - I'm very jealous. Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get my hands on a plane like that for a while.

I recently finished the CPL/IR, so for the moment it's a quick hour here and there when I have the money, to keep the logbook slowly ticking over (and of course to enjoy the flying along the way) until that illusive first job comes my way. Fingers crossed it won't be too long, so I can then get some more "Robin-ing" done!!!!

Plus I'd love to try Aerobatics.... I've got to find a cheaper hobby!!!!

Cheers,
Billy M

[paulo]

hmmm. Robins.

(a) You get in and, whahey!, it's not a 1960s tractor that, if it were a car, you'd rather book a taxi than take a lift. Robins are an aeroplane that look like they were made in a vaguely recent decade. For our PPL effort, didn't we originally think this would be a given?

(b) It flies (well, the 2160 does). Beautifully. Point and shoot stick sensibility.

(c) It's not an 'elitist' machine, skills wise. If you've flown a PA-28 (like many of us i guess), it's a waaaaaaaaay better aircraft that makes you feel like a better pilot with very little relearning. Same type of skills, you're now flying a sharper blade. No float, nail it down, makes you feel like "Spot Land" pro.

Oh yeah, and there's a few models that you can do your basic aeros in aswell. I haven't broken one yet.

Love 'em. Pierre, come back. All is forgiven. Except there was nothing to forgive.

[Hairyplane]

MMMmmm Robins

Hi Billy M,

Yes, there are cheaper hobbies.

Aerobatics will burn your dough - we sponsor an Extra 200 and therefore know what these things cost.

You need an even greater sense of humour with vintage planes. I own 3 in the Shuttleworth Collection.

The trip to eclipse a week in France in the Robin was my trip to Barkaby Stockholm in my 1936 Miles Falcon in June.

24 flying hours in great weather. Trip of a lfetime.

All the best.