Anyone got a kitfox or avid speedwing?
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Anyone got a kitfox or avid speedwing?
Hi Anyone got a kitfox or avid how are they to fly.Ive been told the word "quirky" so much in the last week or two since ive been asking!
Perhaps this is not a really useful answer, but here goes for what it is worth:
I fly an Apollo Fox, a distant derivative of the Kitfox. Tri-gear, 80 hp Rotax, and it is a delight to fly for this beginner (+/- 100 hrs solo). Cruises at 150 km/h (+/- 80 kts) at 4400 rpm, easily (un)folded, and was even lightly repaired, and to a bearable cost, when I broke the prop and nosewheel leg in a very hard landing.
As a non-native English speaker, I am however quite unsure about the finer intricacies of the word "quirky".
I fly an Apollo Fox, a distant derivative of the Kitfox. Tri-gear, 80 hp Rotax, and it is a delight to fly for this beginner (+/- 100 hrs solo). Cruises at 150 km/h (+/- 80 kts) at 4400 rpm, easily (un)folded, and was even lightly repaired, and to a bearable cost, when I broke the prop and nosewheel leg in a very hard landing.
As a non-native English speaker, I am however quite unsure about the finer intricacies of the word "quirky".
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 5th Jul 2014 at 19:04.
I've done a lot of flying in the Easy Raider and Escapade, which are basically derived from the same family but a bit more sorted.
They aren't quirky to my mind - they're well sorted flying machines; what they also aren't however is standard spamcans. You need to be familiar with how to handle low inertia / low wing loading aeroplanes, good with tailwheels and also comfortable with managing a Rotax engine or similar. Crack those - say with some instruction in a Thruster TST, T300 or T600T/582, and you should have no problem with them.
Of the general stable, in my opinion the Easy Raider is by far the nicest pilot's aeroplane - but it's horrible for the passenger. The Escapade is thoroughly enjoyable and well sorted, just doesn't handle or perform quite as well as the ER. The Kitfox and Avid will basically be slightly less well sorted versions of the same - but so long as pilots get to know the class, they have a good safety record and give a lot of pleasure.
G
They aren't quirky to my mind - they're well sorted flying machines; what they also aren't however is standard spamcans. You need to be familiar with how to handle low inertia / low wing loading aeroplanes, good with tailwheels and also comfortable with managing a Rotax engine or similar. Crack those - say with some instruction in a Thruster TST, T300 or T600T/582, and you should have no problem with them.
Of the general stable, in my opinion the Easy Raider is by far the nicest pilot's aeroplane - but it's horrible for the passenger. The Escapade is thoroughly enjoyable and well sorted, just doesn't handle or perform quite as well as the ER. The Kitfox and Avid will basically be slightly less well sorted versions of the same - but so long as pilots get to know the class, they have a good safety record and give a lot of pleasure.
G
A buddy of mine bought an old one with a 912 a while back and has been flying it for just over a year. He has become a raving fan. He is a professional pilot flying jets and turboprops. He has owned a c172, C140, gliders, and so on. The kitfox's stable mate is a bonanza. He is very particular and a pilot's pilot. If he says it is good I am inclined to believe him.
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Mine's a 912 Kitfox, G-PHYL.
I find her an absolute delight to fly, but the handling is definitely quirky. Several pilots who have "had a go" have found her a handful. It's the rudder - aside from the fact some pilots don't know what it does, on the kitfox there is very little directional stability, so with feet off, it WONT return to in-balance, often doing the opposite! You can end up kind of hanging in a sideslip, requiring a big boot to get out of it. I had to take control back from the pilot having a go and fix it! This is not a criticism, it's a lovely machine to fly, but takes a little bit to get used to.
The aircraft climbs like a bat out of hell, takes off and lands on a sixpence. A 'go around' is like magic, throttle in, aircraft up like rocket. Puts many aircraft to shame. I can reliably land in under 100m with no wind.
It uses 11LPH, cruises at anything from 70 to 95mph, with it feeling 'right' and nicely stable at around 80 odd. Massive tyres, can land in long grass no issue. I landed it in standing water mud many times, it was the only aircraft operating at the strip.
Mud Flying - YouTube
In summary, buy one!
Edited to add- I also fly a Tecnam, and recent helicopter lessons showed that the kitfox is a good tutor for helicopter skills!
I find her an absolute delight to fly, but the handling is definitely quirky. Several pilots who have "had a go" have found her a handful. It's the rudder - aside from the fact some pilots don't know what it does, on the kitfox there is very little directional stability, so with feet off, it WONT return to in-balance, often doing the opposite! You can end up kind of hanging in a sideslip, requiring a big boot to get out of it. I had to take control back from the pilot having a go and fix it! This is not a criticism, it's a lovely machine to fly, but takes a little bit to get used to.
The aircraft climbs like a bat out of hell, takes off and lands on a sixpence. A 'go around' is like magic, throttle in, aircraft up like rocket. Puts many aircraft to shame. I can reliably land in under 100m with no wind.
It uses 11LPH, cruises at anything from 70 to 95mph, with it feeling 'right' and nicely stable at around 80 odd. Massive tyres, can land in long grass no issue. I landed it in standing water mud many times, it was the only aircraft operating at the strip.
Mud Flying - YouTube
In summary, buy one!
Edited to add- I also fly a Tecnam, and recent helicopter lessons showed that the kitfox is a good tutor for helicopter skills!
Carl,
FWIW. For that behaviour I'd ban you from my grass strip.
Wilfully using the a/c & cutting wheel ruts creates long term damage to the runway surface. No fun for the other users when it does dry out.
mike hallam (Sussex)
FWIW. For that behaviour I'd ban you from my grass strip.
Wilfully using the a/c & cutting wheel ruts creates long term damage to the runway surface. No fun for the other users when it does dry out.
mike hallam (Sussex)
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Hi Mike,
The aircraft has enormous balloon tyres, inflated to 7psi, and it floats across the top. There was literally NO damage after flying. I had direct permission of the owners, and on inspecting the strip it was not a problem to go flying again and again.
Just look at Deanland's strip now - it's as smooth as a golf course fairway.
Compare this to Goodwood at the same time of year, with foot deep ruts everywhere cut up by the 182s in the winter.
This is the beauty of an aircraft so light, on such enormous tyres. I kid you not - zero damage.
-C
The aircraft has enormous balloon tyres, inflated to 7psi, and it floats across the top. There was literally NO damage after flying. I had direct permission of the owners, and on inspecting the strip it was not a problem to go flying again and again.
Just look at Deanland's strip now - it's as smooth as a golf course fairway.
Compare this to Goodwood at the same time of year, with foot deep ruts everywhere cut up by the 182s in the winter.
This is the beauty of an aircraft so light, on such enormous tyres. I kid you not - zero damage.
-C
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Carl,
I agree with Mike: you should be banned from flying from that muddy runway. It is absolutely sickening that you should be enjoying those conditions while other resident pilots have their aircraft confined to hangars for months on end.
I agree with Mike: you should be banned from flying from that muddy runway. It is absolutely sickening that you should be enjoying those conditions while other resident pilots have their aircraft confined to hangars for months on end.
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I did about 30 hours in a Kitfox V tailwheel that was owned by a family member for a while, great little plane. I wouldn’t describe it as quirky, can’t remember it doing anything unexpected, but maybe I didn't have enough experience to know better. Took a little practice but I was relatively new to tail wheel.
Carl pretty much describes if well. You do need to use the rudder, the pedals were quite firm also. Early on sometimes climb out performance seemed to a bit poor and I realized I was flying sideways, a bit of rudder made it much better. It seemed quite happy flying sideways so when you want to be slipping its great.
Only one thing of note is the cowling is a slightly tapered and so straight ahead is quite far left looking from the pilots seat, so I found I needed to put my head in the middle and get a feeling for straight ahead while getting used to it.
The Kitfox is defiantly on my shortlist when I can afford to buy a kit (in about 200 years time). The others currently on my shortlist are the Rans (S6 or the new S20) or a cub replica such as the Ziln Savage Cub. Have never actually flown the others yet
Carl pretty much describes if well. You do need to use the rudder, the pedals were quite firm also. Early on sometimes climb out performance seemed to a bit poor and I realized I was flying sideways, a bit of rudder made it much better. It seemed quite happy flying sideways so when you want to be slipping its great.
Only one thing of note is the cowling is a slightly tapered and so straight ahead is quite far left looking from the pilots seat, so I found I needed to put my head in the middle and get a feeling for straight ahead while getting used to it.
The Kitfox is defiantly on my shortlist when I can afford to buy a kit (in about 200 years time). The others currently on my shortlist are the Rans (S6 or the new S20) or a cub replica such as the Ziln Savage Cub. Have never actually flown the others yet
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Having flown over 1200 hours in Kitfoxes, I certainly would not describe their handling as quirky.
The early marks, especially Models 1 and 2, are difficult to keep in balance and land consistently well. They also tend to have two stroke engines- which sound different and are probably less reliable than the engines most light aircraft pilots are used to. However, early Kitfoxes are cheap and easy to fly safely imho. Instruction on a light taildragger such as a Thruster is very good preparation
The later models, particularly Models 4 onwards- with the changed wing section- are much easier to land well especially if they have the wider spring aluminium landing gear. They also tend to have more economical four stroke engines. I currently have a Model 5 with Rotax 912S engine and Grove landing gear. It is a benign taildragger with 100 knot cruise and lots of inertia but retains the excellent short and rough field capability of the earlier models.I understand that the Models 6 and 7 are similar.
The early marks, especially Models 1 and 2, are difficult to keep in balance and land consistently well. They also tend to have two stroke engines- which sound different and are probably less reliable than the engines most light aircraft pilots are used to. However, early Kitfoxes are cheap and easy to fly safely imho. Instruction on a light taildragger such as a Thruster is very good preparation
The later models, particularly Models 4 onwards- with the changed wing section- are much easier to land well especially if they have the wider spring aluminium landing gear. They also tend to have more economical four stroke engines. I currently have a Model 5 with Rotax 912S engine and Grove landing gear. It is a benign taildragger with 100 knot cruise and lots of inertia but retains the excellent short and rough field capability of the earlier models.I understand that the Models 6 and 7 are similar.
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The biggest plus with Kitfoxes and similar is that you can fold the wings easily yourself, fly from farm fields and keep the plane at home in the garage or any suitable shed.
That is exactly how I operated my Model 3 Kitfox with Rotax 912 and bungee landing gear (until shortly before I sold it) for years, as you can see from this You Tube video: Kitfox - YouTube
That is exactly how I operated my Model 3 Kitfox with Rotax 912 and bungee landing gear (until shortly before I sold it) for years, as you can see from this You Tube video: Kitfox - YouTube
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Thanx for the post another great video for avid owners is a youtube vid avid flyer in the alps. Its a great video of an avid over the alps.
If the guy is flying a rotax 582 ( and it sounds like a two stroke) then he has earned the right to be in a james bond movie.......
If the guy is flying a rotax 582 ( and it sounds like a two stroke) then he has earned the right to be in a james bond movie.......