Choice of plane for PPL

[Amblikai]

Hi Folks, i'm just wondering, if you had the choice to learn in the following, which would you choose and why?

PS28 Sport Cruiser with glass cockpit
Piper PA28
Cessna 172

Also, if you learn in a plane with "glass cockpit" avionics are you restricted to using that type? Or vice versa, can you fly a plane with the glass cockpit avionics if you didn't learn in it?

Thanks!

[OpenCirrus619]

I can't speak for the SportCruiser - having no personal experience of one.

Glass vs Classic Instruments:
If you have an idea of what you are likely to fly once you have your PPL then it would make sense to go for that.
As far as switching between Glass and Classic there is no requirement for any differences training. Until you have a reasonable amount of experience, in different aircraft, I would strongly recommend you get a check flight with an appropriate check pilot (not necessarily an instructor) prior to flying anything which differs from what you are used to.

C172 vs PA28:
You will probably find the C172 easier - mainly due to the better view down (certainly makes the NAV easier). For that reason I would personally learn in the PA28 - as the army say "Train hard, Fight easy".

OC619

[Genghis the Engineer]

Of those three - I'd say pick whichever is cheapest. All are perfectly good training aeroplanes. Are either the C152 or PA38 Tomahawk available locally? - both are likely to be cheaper, and are arguably better training aeroplanes.

Switching between types, and between analogue and glass cockpits is only ever a case of a bit of conversion training / briefing with an instructor.

G

[Amblikai]

Thanks guys, i've always preferred the looks of a low wing anyway so i'll probably let that swing my decision from the C172!

With regards to differences training, how long does is it valid for? For example i understand that differences training is required for variable pitch props. When you've done it, do you have it set for as long as your license is valid?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Indefinitely, but if you don't use it for 2 years, you're supposed to refresh it.

G

[Amblikai]

Thanks!

Also off topic but since i have your attention, when hiring a plane, do you only pay for the time flying? For example if you hired a PA28 and flew an hours flight time and stayed overnight, then flew the hour back again, is that only a 2 hour hire?

Random question i know but i'm very curious.

Thanks again.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Depends upon the company that owns the aeroplane. Typically you only pay for the flight time, but if you tie the aeroplane up for a whole day they'll insist that you pay for a minimum (typically 3 hours per day for more expensive aeroplanes, 4 hours per day for cheaper ones). Often companies are much more relaxed about it in the week, as the weekend is their main revenue earning time for the aeroplanes.

This is one of the many reasons I like owning a share in an aeroplane, rather than renting. A syndicated owner seldom has a problem taking his/her aeroplane away for a few days and only paying for the flying.

G

[Amblikai]

Thanks i'm just considering the costs to maintain my PPL after i get it. I'm aiming to do it next summer at the moment but i want to get my ground exams out of the way first.

[dagowly]

I'd go with 152 and then spend a few hours after you achieve your license and rating to become conversant on other SEP aircraft. The 152 will be the basic airframe you need to learn and if you can fly one of them, then any other aircraft will appear a luxury and you'll appreciate it better.

[Mach Jump]

As far as switching between Glass and Classic there is no requirement for any differences training.

Although strictly true, Glass-Classic, Differences Training is 'strongly advised'.

Classic-Glass does require Differences Training though.


MJ

[arn3696]

Under EASA there is no need to refresh differences training (for SEP) if not flown for 2 years. See Cap 804, Section H - FCL710 (b)

[Amblikai]

Although strictly true, Glass-Classic, Differences Training is 'strongly advised'.

Classic-Glass does require Differences Training though.

So if you learn in a glass cockpit, you can fly both whereas, the other way round you'd require differences training? Is that right?

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

So if you learn in a glass cockpit, you can fly both whereas, the other way round you'd require differences training? Is that right?

You'd be nonetheless very slightly bonkers as a newish PPL to launch off in a steam gauge aircraft with no training on or experience of such, unless perhaps it was a wonderful day and you were only intending to navigate by looking out of the window. Following an NDB needle isn't quite the same as following a magenta line.

[Mach Jump]

So if you learn in a glass cockpit, you can fly both whereas, the other way round you'd require differences training? Is that right?

Yes. However, I think it's a case of the rulemakers imagination not stretching to the possibility that pilots might swap from new to old, as well as old to new!


MJ

[sharpend]

Unless you are filthy rich, go for something cheap like a spam can. Then when qualified move on to a proper aeroplane like a Bulldog

ps I learnt to fly in a Jet, but there again Auntie Betty paid.

[ChickenHouse]

First, are you going to be owner or on charter to maintain PPL?

If you are going to be an owner, go for the training machine close to you future plane.
If you are going to be on charter, go for the most ordinary planes you can hire all over the world and go for classic cockpit.

Glass cockpit might appeal the little toy boys, but it brings you farther away from the art of flying and attracts you to the dark side of electronics addiction. Learn how to fly - and that means little information and sensible butt feelings - first on a classic cockpit, where each information has its own clock, and enjoy the overwhelming information flood of things you don't need for flying in a glass cockpit later.

[Amblikai]

If you are going to be an owner, go for the training machine close to you future plane.
If you are going to be on charter, go for the most ordinary planes you can hire all over the world and go for classic cockpit.

Would it change your mind if the glass cockpit plane was cheaper? Others have said learn on whatever is cheapest etc..

I doubt i'll be an owner after i qualify. Renting would be the most likely outcome. From that end i understand i'd be better learning in a PA28 say, but it's a lot more expensive than the PS28s.

Cheers!

[Kerosene Kraut]

I'd pick the cheapest type and would fly more times instead. No need to pick a cirrus from the beginning when a 150 gets the job done as well.

If theres is a specific airplane you want to rent more often afterwards, get a proper introduction with an instructor for it afterwards. Even when you've got your licence already.

I'd prefer to learn on a classic pre-glass airplane. Upgrading to glass is easy. Just make sure you know how to handle all those garmins, ipads and stuff inflight before you fly. There is good training software for it available.

[cockney steve]

I'm with Chickenhouse on this one.....BUT...If you are familiar with Satnav and a complex audio-system and can manipulate these in a heavy-traffic environment, you may be good to learn to fly,with a "magic telly"

A few steam-gauges are quick and easy to scan and assimilate their info....you don't "read" them, but subconciously note the position of the pointers...In the initial stages, as with learning to drive, pointing it in the right direction and co-ordinating hands and feet are enough to keep you fully occupied....once this becomes automatic, then is the time to start playing with a telly.
just my opinion, of course.

[Amblikai]

All good advice thanks folks. It makes sense to me, to learn in a classic cockpit since there's probably very little chance of me flying with a "magic telly" (I like that one!) after PPL.

Just have to think about the cost. More hours and all that.