Can you buy a 4seater tourer and aerobatic aircraft?
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SF260
Early models of the SF260 are certified with 4 seats, albeit with a 250lbs weight limitation on the rear seats. But 170kts cruise, +6g -3g and fighter style handling make up for its limitations. An ideal tourer for a family with kids, and anyway they don't want to come with you once they grow too heavy for the aeroplane!
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Anyone who has seen what holds the wings onto a DR400 would not aerobat it !!! It is a very good touring aircraft bit not for turning upside down.
As far as I can see the SF260 is the nearest thing to the required spec.
As far as I can see the SF260 is the nearest thing to the required spec.
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it seems the SF-260 is the most ideal. Sadly they are also like rocking horse **** lol.
also i reckon I would struggle to operate out of netherthiroe(EGNF). but east mids is only 25mins away.
At 150k euro's i was thinkng of buying buy i would give 3 shares ouri reckon to get 3 top end, experienced flyers, as they would need to have money. they would then be able to help me going forward on experience etc....
still not decided.......not an easy decision!!!!
also i reckon I would struggle to operate out of netherthiroe(EGNF). but east mids is only 25mins away.
At 150k euro's i was thinkng of buying buy i would give 3 shares ouri reckon to get 3 top end, experienced flyers, as they would need to have money. they would then be able to help me going forward on experience etc....
still not decided.......not an easy decision!!!!
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SF-260 is a great machine - fast, and slippery, so not so good for aerobatic competition, but tremendous fun for flghter flying or gentleman's leisurely positive G only manoeuvres.
It has a high wing loading too, so not so good for short fields (you fly it on like a jet), but trailing link gear can cope with rough surfaces.
I'd have one in a shot, but cheap, they're not.
It has a high wing loading too, so not so good for short fields (you fly it on like a jet), but trailing link gear can cope with rough surfaces.
I'd have one in a shot, but cheap, they're not.
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As mentioned, SF260, Yak, Fuji, Bonanza, Pup150. I think all are aeros 2 up and touring for four - some more capable than others in both spheres. Personally I would go for an RV7 or 8, good for aeros and touring if you can keep it down to two up, that is fine for most people most of the time and then hire when you need the extra seats.
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Auster J5 Aiglet?
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I own a 1979 aerobatic Beech Sundowner (180 hp).
Loops, rolls, split-S, Immelmann, spins, basic stuff. No inverted oil system so no sustained inverted flight. Fairly quick on the ailerons; +6/-3.8G; needs to be lightly loaded for aerobatics, front seats only. It has quick-jettison doors (though I've disabled that feature as I no longer do any aerobatics with it).
Not very many of them made. I've done a few loops with it but not much else, didn't buy it with that purpose in mind.
Hence the username
Loops, rolls, split-S, Immelmann, spins, basic stuff. No inverted oil system so no sustained inverted flight. Fairly quick on the ailerons; +6/-3.8G; needs to be lightly loaded for aerobatics, front seats only. It has quick-jettison doors (though I've disabled that feature as I no longer do any aerobatics with it).
Not very many of them made. I've done a few loops with it but not much else, didn't buy it with that purpose in mind.
Hence the username
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Excellent thread! Thank you all!
Hello,
Long ago I flew but only had about 150 hours of flying time and only 3 hours of aerobatic time, and gave it up when I went to grad school, under the premise that I would buy a plane and keep flying. Well, life and women took me another direction, so the fact is now I need to go through all my training again from the start. I still want to own my own plane though instead of renting, and am finally planning on doing so this year. I want a plane to train in and tour in with up to 4 friends and for business trips. But, I also want to do aerobatics when I want to go up alone and have some fun. I originally flew out of MN airports in an A150 and 152s. I see there is a lot of negative comments about the A150/152s here (which is also only a 2 seat plane), from people who know FAR more than me about this subject. I want a fairly inexpensive plane for my first trainer/plane, maybe in the $20,000.00 to $40,000.00 range ideally, if possible. It seems to me that there are potential issues with such models as the Fuji (which sounds great actually) and the Saad Safir 91D, (maybe the Yak also, but no one mentioned that) with acquisition of parts... So, that leaves me with the Yak-18 (maybe), Robin R-2160/2112, Beech B-19/19A Sports II Musketeer/C23 Sundowner, etc... However, are there also issues with bringing aircraft in from foreign countries, as the Saabs are all out of the country and so are the Robins and most Fujis? Thanks for any comments. Realistically, after having become a competent and safe pilot, in the future, I will own a Pitts S-2B as my aerobatic plane, and what ever plane is recommended here most strongly as my touring plane. Thank you, sincerely, Greg.
Long ago I flew but only had about 150 hours of flying time and only 3 hours of aerobatic time, and gave it up when I went to grad school, under the premise that I would buy a plane and keep flying. Well, life and women took me another direction, so the fact is now I need to go through all my training again from the start. I still want to own my own plane though instead of renting, and am finally planning on doing so this year. I want a plane to train in and tour in with up to 4 friends and for business trips. But, I also want to do aerobatics when I want to go up alone and have some fun. I originally flew out of MN airports in an A150 and 152s. I see there is a lot of negative comments about the A150/152s here (which is also only a 2 seat plane), from people who know FAR more than me about this subject. I want a fairly inexpensive plane for my first trainer/plane, maybe in the $20,000.00 to $40,000.00 range ideally, if possible. It seems to me that there are potential issues with such models as the Fuji (which sounds great actually) and the Saad Safir 91D, (maybe the Yak also, but no one mentioned that) with acquisition of parts... So, that leaves me with the Yak-18 (maybe), Robin R-2160/2112, Beech B-19/19A Sports II Musketeer/C23 Sundowner, etc... However, are there also issues with bringing aircraft in from foreign countries, as the Saabs are all out of the country and so are the Robins and most Fujis? Thanks for any comments. Realistically, after having become a competent and safe pilot, in the future, I will own a Pitts S-2B as my aerobatic plane, and what ever plane is recommended here most strongly as my touring plane. Thank you, sincerely, Greg.
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Welcome Browntrout, Your choices for 4 place aerobatic may be limited. As other pilots I know, it might be more to your liking, and cost effective, to own a modest touring plane, and an aerobatic type, even single seater, for aerobatic fun. One plane which does both will be a compromise....
browntrout if you could reduce your needs to a 2 seater then the locally produced Victa Airtourer could work for you:
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There are a few for sale in Oz.
Home
There are a few for sale in Oz.
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Not all Sundowners are aerobatic - easy to spot though, they have strakes on the side of the cowl and an extension to the vertical fin below the tail.
A Sundowner is a capable tourer with the ability to do loop, rolls etc. for fun but would not do well in even a beginner competition I think.
I was looking at buying one six years ago - in the end I went with an Archer II and no aeros - mainly due to availability of parts.
A Sundowner is a capable tourer with the ability to do loop, rolls etc. for fun but would not do well in even a beginner competition I think.
I was looking at buying one six years ago - in the end I went with an Archer II and no aeros - mainly due to availability of parts.
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Which is the more important? Which would be used more? If it's the tourer then buy the best for that and rent the aero, or join an aero group. That way you avoid having to compromise, and a heap of maintenance bills for the aero-ship.
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Thank you Pilot DAR
Pilot DAR,
Thank you for your input, I truly appreciate it. I read the entire posting in this thread, and searched each of the aircraft mentioned. The difference with me and the original poster is that I have 0 hours right now, and need a decent trainer first, then a trouring plane, then and only then an aerobatic plane when I am a competent pilot again. I understand the compromise, but I am not looking to get into competition, just go up and have a little fun. I just watched the Yak 18 and the Saab videos, and they look like great planes for this purpose. Just concerned about the costs involved in a foreign plane's upkeep and MOH, etc... I am not currently interested in owning two planes until I am a competent pilot again.
Thank you, Greg.
Thank you for your input, I truly appreciate it. I read the entire posting in this thread, and searched each of the aircraft mentioned. The difference with me and the original poster is that I have 0 hours right now, and need a decent trainer first, then a trouring plane, then and only then an aerobatic plane when I am a competent pilot again. I understand the compromise, but I am not looking to get into competition, just go up and have a little fun. I just watched the Yak 18 and the Saab videos, and they look like great planes for this purpose. Just concerned about the costs involved in a foreign plane's upkeep and MOH, etc... I am not currently interested in owning two planes until I am a competent pilot again.
Thank you, Greg.
Welcome Browntrout, Your choices for 4 place aerobatic may be limited. As other pilots I know, it might be more to your liking, and cost effective, to own a modest touring plane, and an aerobatic type, even single seater, for aerobatic fun. One plane which does both will be a compromise....
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Thank you LowNSlow!
LowNSlow,
thank you for your reply and thought. I will look into this aircraft too. As it is foreign, on of my concerns is what will the upkeep be in the US... As that his all part of the hourly costs.
Sincerely, Greg.
thank you for your reply and thought. I will look into this aircraft too. As it is foreign, on of my concerns is what will the upkeep be in the US... As that his all part of the hourly costs.
Sincerely, Greg.
browntrout if you could reduce your needs to a 2 seater then the locally produced Victa Airtourer could work for you:
Home
There are a few for sale in Oz.
Home
There are a few for sale in Oz.
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Thank you Ebbie 2003
Ebbie, thank you for your input. I will take a look at the Sundowner a bit more then. I am not looking at competition at this point in my life, just some fun once I am a capable pilot again. Though, that might be fun to consider in the future ast some amateur/basic level.
One of my concerns about all of this is the avialablitlity of parts on foreign aircraft here in the US...
Thank you, Greg.
One of my concerns about all of this is the avialablitlity of parts on foreign aircraft here in the US...
Thank you, Greg.
Not all Sundowners are aerobatic - easy to spot though, they have strakes on the side of the cowl and an extension to the vertical fin below the tail.
A Sundowner is a capable tourer with the ability to do loop, rolls etc. for fun but would not do well in even a beginner competition I think.
I was looking at buying one six years ago - in the end I went with an Archer II and no aeros - mainly due to availability of parts.
A Sundowner is a capable tourer with the ability to do loop, rolls etc. for fun but would not do well in even a beginner competition I think.
I was looking at buying one six years ago - in the end I went with an Archer II and no aeros - mainly due to availability of parts.
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Thank you Rat 5!
Rat 5, thank you for your input. I would say right now, training is most important, then touring, then aerobatics. However, I currently live in a fairly remote place which does not allow for too many near by clubs, but I will look around, maybe there is on close enough to make this a better idea!
Thank you, Greg.
Thank you, Greg.