Trial flight- what to expect?
Thread Starter
airpolice,
Thanks for the relevant answer.
As I have said I am considered a member of the club. I did try specifically to book a flight with an instructor but I was told that it could not be guaranteed.
The weather appears to be nice and I am looking forward to it. I feel like checking on line for the 172 handbook.
Rwy in Sight
Thanks for the relevant answer.
As I have said I am considered a member of the club. I did try specifically to book a flight with an instructor but I was told that it could not be guaranteed.
The weather appears to be nice and I am looking forward to it. I feel like checking on line for the 172 handbook.
Rwy in Sight
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Wasn't there a loophole once where you did not pay for the flight but paid for membership of a club ?
This sounds very like that!
If you are flying with a PPL he is in command of the aircraft but not licensed to instruct and you cannot log anything
Pace
This sounds very like that!
If you are flying with a PPL he is in command of the aircraft but not licensed to instruct and you cannot log anything
Pace
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I don't think our friend is taking any notice at all. I wonder why he posted in the first place?
The only way this flight would be legal is if the PPL is paying for half the costs.
I doubt that he will be, so there's no way this flight is legal for anything. Don't put it anywhere near a logbook, unless of course you want to do the right thing and make life easier for the CAA investigators if they ever get wind of this.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the further advice on legality. Now,as I told before I am a member of the local airclub and we would contact the flight as a PPL holder and a member flying together. So it seems we are covered.
I told him I wanted to contact the flight as a trial lesson but he said an instructor can't be available for my flight so no logbook entries can be made. I still want to see if I enjoy flying small aircraft and see if I am any good at it, or I should seek another hobby.
Many thanks again for the advice. And obvioulsy I would post back here how it went.
Rwy in Sight
I told him I wanted to contact the flight as a trial lesson but he said an instructor can't be available for my flight so no logbook entries can be made. I still want to see if I enjoy flying small aircraft and see if I am any good at it, or I should seek another hobby.
Many thanks again for the advice. And obvioulsy I would post back here how it went.
Rwy in Sight
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Just through interest how much are you paying for this flight (sorry club membership) ?
Why if this is a real flying club can you not request that you delay a day or two until an instructor is available? sounds all very fishy!
Pace
Why if this is a real flying club can you not request that you delay a day or two until an instructor is available? sounds all very fishy!
Pace
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It doesn't matter that you're a member of the club, if you're paying for the flight it is illegal.
The type of pleasure flight you are describing needs a cpl holder and an AOC, neither of which this club has.
To be a lesson, it requires someone with an instructor rating.
So unless this PPL holder has an instructor rating, the flight is illegal. If you pay for 100% of the cost of the flight, even if they dress it up as club membership, it is illegal.
How would you feel if you ran a taxi company, but someone kept turning up to the taxi rank in a private car and offered to take people home if they joined his club. He wouldn't have a taxi licence, or taxi insurance, so none of the over heads, but importantly none of the cover when things go wrong.
It's exactly the same here, without an AOC, you can not operate pleasure flights, without an instructor rating and authorisation you cannot operate a flying lesson, so just a PPL taking you up is illegal and if it all goes wrong you will find those friendly people you booked with denying all knowledge, and you're left with no cover at all.
The type of pleasure flight you are describing needs a cpl holder and an AOC, neither of which this club has.
To be a lesson, it requires someone with an instructor rating.
So unless this PPL holder has an instructor rating, the flight is illegal. If you pay for 100% of the cost of the flight, even if they dress it up as club membership, it is illegal.
How would you feel if you ran a taxi company, but someone kept turning up to the taxi rank in a private car and offered to take people home if they joined his club. He wouldn't have a taxi licence, or taxi insurance, so none of the over heads, but importantly none of the cover when things go wrong.
It's exactly the same here, without an AOC, you can not operate pleasure flights, without an instructor rating and authorisation you cannot operate a flying lesson, so just a PPL taking you up is illegal and if it all goes wrong you will find those friendly people you booked with denying all knowledge, and you're left with no cover at all.
Thread Starter
Dear all,
Sincere thanks for all your answers and for pointing the insurance issues. I took the flight earlier today (since it was paid for) and I like to give a feedback here. First of all your comments where on my head since yesterday.
So here is the story. I went to the air club today to fly on the appointment. I was asked to sign a statement that I am ok to fly with the club and I agree to be covered by the clubs insurance on its aircraft. We flew around the field for 4 touch and goes. I had a short debrief and off I went.
I do intend to check with the national CAA to check when is legal to fly along on a SEP and pay some money to the club. I definitely understand there may be some very severe issues about flying in a non-legal situation and also I need to check with my own insurance company whether I am covered when I fly on SEP no matter to the circumstances.
Rwy in Sight
Sincere thanks for all your answers and for pointing the insurance issues. I took the flight earlier today (since it was paid for) and I like to give a feedback here. First of all your comments where on my head since yesterday.
So here is the story. I went to the air club today to fly on the appointment. I was asked to sign a statement that I am ok to fly with the club and I agree to be covered by the clubs insurance on its aircraft. We flew around the field for 4 touch and goes. I had a short debrief and off I went.
I do intend to check with the national CAA to check when is legal to fly along on a SEP and pay some money to the club. I definitely understand there may be some very severe issues about flying in a non-legal situation and also I need to check with my own insurance company whether I am covered when I fly on SEP no matter to the circumstances.
Rwy in Sight
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Are we all really sure that this is not legal?
To everyone else,
What if the club "give" a ppl member the use of the aircraft free of charge, to show new members what the club has to offer. The Pilot has no need to pay half of nothing.
Rwy pays his club membership for a year, or whatever, and the club stands the cost of 20 minutes airtime and a landing fee, out of either what Rwy paid them or they take it on the chin as an introduction investment in Rwy with a view to getting his long term custom.
What if the club "give" a ppl member the use of the aircraft free of charge, to show new members what the club has to offer. The Pilot has no need to pay half of nothing.
Rwy pays his club membership for a year, or whatever, and the club stands the cost of 20 minutes airtime and a landing fee, out of either what Rwy paid them or they take it on the chin as an introduction investment in Rwy with a view to getting his long term custom.
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airpolice
It would give a much clearer picture if the poster of this thread would indicate what he has paid for this experience something he seems reluctant to reveal.
it could be the case that he has paid membership to a flying club and one of the PPLs has taken him for a free ride. Membership maybe a requirement of the flying club on flying club aircraft as well as to meet insurance.
One puzzle is the lack of an instructor to do the flight with him.
Without knowing what he has paid, what membership he has taken? Why no instructor available etc its hard to judge as well as what financial contribution he made to the PPL flight?
The lack of that information being supplied makes the whole thing sound fishy?
I paid x amount for non flying club membership and paid the PPL x amount to the cost of the flight. no instructor available because they were all booked up etc.
My concern is that he has had a big chunk of money removed which could have been better spent on a proper trial lesson where he gets to fly the takeoff right to an assisted landing.
A real deal flying club wanting business would surely want him to fly with an instructor as the best way of starting him off on a PPL course.
Something does not ring right about the club or the thread poster in his reluctance to forward that information.
RWY I looked at some of your previous threads all very polite and interesting!
i am sure many here would have been happy to take you on a flight without payment!
Pace
It would give a much clearer picture if the poster of this thread would indicate what he has paid for this experience something he seems reluctant to reveal.
it could be the case that he has paid membership to a flying club and one of the PPLs has taken him for a free ride. Membership maybe a requirement of the flying club on flying club aircraft as well as to meet insurance.
One puzzle is the lack of an instructor to do the flight with him.
Without knowing what he has paid, what membership he has taken? Why no instructor available etc its hard to judge as well as what financial contribution he made to the PPL flight?
The lack of that information being supplied makes the whole thing sound fishy?
I paid x amount for non flying club membership and paid the PPL x amount to the cost of the flight. no instructor available because they were all booked up etc.
My concern is that he has had a big chunk of money removed which could have been better spent on a proper trial lesson where he gets to fly the takeoff right to an assisted landing.
A real deal flying club wanting business would surely want him to fly with an instructor as the best way of starting him off on a PPL course.
Something does not ring right about the club or the thread poster in his reluctance to forward that information.
RWY I looked at some of your previous threads all very polite and interesting!
i am sure many here would have been happy to take you on a flight without payment!
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 18th Jan 2014 at 13:56.
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airpolice - In the UK at least that would definitely still be illegal (every wrinkle that you can think of has been tried by now). The cost sharing rule is very simple. What is being spoken about in this thread is quite clearly aerial work, see
https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1428/Summ...009May2010.pdf
https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1428/Summ...009May2010.pdf
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Without knowing what he has paid, what membership he has taken?
Otherwise the PPL holder has a free hour for doing what is effectively a commercial flight, which is very definitely illegal.
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A couple of weeks ago I bought a coupon for a 30' flight that can be used either for a sight seeing flight or for a few touch and go.
Half an hour.
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Airpolice
The very fact that it was a coupon for a 30 minute flight is very suspect in itself.
Selling a coupon for a sight seeing flight or experience flight is selling a specific experience not a club membership and sounds totally illegal.
Pace
The very fact that it was a coupon for a 30 minute flight is very suspect in itself.
Selling a coupon for a sight seeing flight or experience flight is selling a specific experience not a club membership and sounds totally illegal.
Pace
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We all agree that this illegal under easa, and illegal in the uk. Not all countries have fully implemented easa rules yet, and we know that this sort of caper is still legal in france.
This flight was conducted in greece. It would appear that there are no greek instructors available on here to fill in the blanks.
Still sounds pretty fishy though.
This flight was conducted in greece. It would appear that there are no greek instructors available on here to fill in the blanks.
Still sounds pretty fishy though.