Flying through France - which frequencies?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
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From: London
Flying through France - which frequencies?
Happy New Year all.
I'm planning a trip to the south of France later in the year and am intending to do as much as possible VFR in the Class E above FL65 (routing Dover, to the east of Paris, past Dijon and down to Cannes). I'm IMC rated but obviously can't use it outside UK.
My question is how many different flight information frequencies should I expect on the way down?
Looking at the back of the 1:1,000,000 map it looks like the simplest approach is to go initially to Paris Info on 125.7 then to Paris 126.1 then Marseilles 124.5 and finally Marseilles 120.55.
However, looking in more detail at the map there are a lot more much smaller flight information sectors within the big Paris and Marseilles ones e.g. start with Lille info on 120.275 then Lille 126.475, then on to Seine 120.325 etc ie a lot more frequency changes?
Clearly the first scenario is the simplest but is that actually what those frequencies are for. I don't think I've ever used London Info.... And I realise that in class E I don't technically have to talk to anyone but I'd prefer to.
Would Paris and Marseilles ident me on radar? Would they be able to inform me of restricted areas being active etc? Will they hand me over?
Thanks - probably another stupid question.....
Also any routing tips or half-way stop off suggestions most welcome.
Thanks all!
I'm planning a trip to the south of France later in the year and am intending to do as much as possible VFR in the Class E above FL65 (routing Dover, to the east of Paris, past Dijon and down to Cannes). I'm IMC rated but obviously can't use it outside UK.
My question is how many different flight information frequencies should I expect on the way down?
Looking at the back of the 1:1,000,000 map it looks like the simplest approach is to go initially to Paris Info on 125.7 then to Paris 126.1 then Marseilles 124.5 and finally Marseilles 120.55.
However, looking in more detail at the map there are a lot more much smaller flight information sectors within the big Paris and Marseilles ones e.g. start with Lille info on 120.275 then Lille 126.475, then on to Seine 120.325 etc ie a lot more frequency changes?
Clearly the first scenario is the simplest but is that actually what those frequencies are for. I don't think I've ever used London Info.... And I realise that in class E I don't technically have to talk to anyone but I'd prefer to.
Would Paris and Marseilles ident me on radar? Would they be able to inform me of restricted areas being active etc? Will they hand me over?
Thanks - probably another stupid question.....
Also any routing tips or half-way stop off suggestions most welcome.
Thanks all!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 248
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From: South-East, United Kingdom
I'd note down the main ones you see for the different areas, or ones linked to the nearest area of controlled airspace to which you will fly. If you have the appropriate French charts, they will be fairly clear to see.
In my experience of VFR in Class E, you will simply get handed over from one to the other seamlessly - more so than you typically would experience in the UK where you have to make a freecall to whoever you want next. In most cases the frequency will be one you have noted down beforehand, other times maybe it isn't, but just write it down and put it in the radio.
In my experience of VFR in Class E, you will simply get handed over from one to the other seamlessly - more so than you typically would experience in the UK where you have to make a freecall to whoever you want next. In most cases the frequency will be one you have noted down beforehand, other times maybe it isn't, but just write it down and put it in the radio.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 609
Likes: 1
From: Around the world.
Last time I flew a light aircraft through France, before hand I was getting worked up about who to talk to. In reality when I flew it I was just seamlessly passed from one freq to the next, much easier than the UK. I found the same situation in Spain for what it's worth.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
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From: E Anglia
Get onto the SIA website SIA : Service d'information aéronautique. Contrôle et réglementation de la circulation aérienne. and buy the 2014 folder 'Documents VFR' About 35€ and worth every penny:
Includes two handy 1:1.000.000 charts covering the whole of France and booklets listing frequencies over the whole country.
Also valuable stuff about low level military routes: everything you could wish to know.
In French and English.
Indispensable IMHO.
Cusco
Includes two handy 1:1.000.000 charts covering the whole of France and booklets listing frequencies over the whole country.
Also valuable stuff about low level military routes: everything you could wish to know.
In French and English.
Indispensable IMHO.
Cusco
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 563
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From: USA
n my experience of VFR in Class E, you will simply get handed over from one to the other seamlessly
Just look at the nearest FIS frequency and call them up, when you leave the area you'll be handed over to the next place, workload permitting.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
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From: London
Thanks everyone. I've got the French VFR pack and Sydemon so feeling fairly confident. I just wanted to be sure that if a) Skydemon went down / Ipad broke and b) I didn't get handovers between units that I'd be confident enough to know which frequency to dial up next.
From what everyone has said it looks like I should call Lille on first contact and then all being well I'll get handed over all the way down France.
What would be really handy would be a French equivalent of the UK LARS map that makes it very clear where the boundaries between Flight Info sectors are.
Thanks!
From what everyone has said it looks like I should call Lille on first contact and then all being well I'll get handed over all the way down France.
What would be really handy would be a French equivalent of the UK LARS map that makes it very clear where the boundaries between Flight Info sectors are.
Thanks!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 563
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From: USA
What would be really handy would be a French equivalent of the UK LARS map that makes it very clear where the boundaries between Flight Info sectors are.
Only the UK splits out FIS and LARS.
And please don't ask controllers abroad for a Basic Service. It doesn't exist.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 862
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From: Swindon, Wiltshire
I flew down to Cannes a little while ago and must have spoken twenty words, and heard twenty words back during the entire flight. You can expect proper co-ordinated handovers for most, if not all of your journey as well.
There's no fuss at all like the UK!
There's no fuss at all like the UK!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 862
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From: Swindon, Wiltshire
This is the chart for the whole country
It's a bit of a beast though - you either need to print it at A3 (or bigger!) or print it sectionally.
It's a bit of a beast though - you either need to print it at A3 (or bigger!) or print it sectionally.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23
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From: Sussex, UK
Would Paris and Marseilles ident me on radar? Would they be able to inform me of restricted areas being active etc? Will they hand me over?
Remember to fly semi-circular headings (not quadrantal) and advise FISO of altitude changes.
I have flown your proposed route quite a few times now, usually skirting the Paris TMA just east of Soissons. The only issue I have ever had is transiting Lyon. The options are to follow the published low level route via Lyon Bron (at about 1500ft agl) or stay East or West of the TMA which is fine in good VMC but challenging in poor vis due to terrain.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 42
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From: London
Thanks Stevelup - that link is most helpful.
It does highlight my initial confusion.
If you look at the link that Stevelup supplies and look overhead Calais for example - the main map suggests that the frequency to call is Paris Ctl on 128.275. But in the smaller 'Flight Information Frequencies' map at the top right it suggests that Lille Info (listed as number 10 with three frequencies listed) is the right unit.
From what you've all said it sounds like you could call either and they would look after you but keen to know what the difference is.
It does highlight my initial confusion.
If you look at the link that Stevelup supplies and look overhead Calais for example - the main map suggests that the frequency to call is Paris Ctl on 128.275. But in the smaller 'Flight Information Frequencies' map at the top right it suggests that Lille Info (listed as number 10 with three frequencies listed) is the right unit.
From what you've all said it sounds like you could call either and they would look after you but keen to know what the difference is.
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 23
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From: Sussex, UK
The main chart in the link is for Low Level Airways. The CTL frequencies are primarily for access to airways and the TMA (same as London Control).
The smaller FIS chart (which I have never spotted before, tucked in the corner) would be very useful, as you say, if it did not group the sectors together. In reality, you could dial in the first frequency in the list and if it was wrong the controller would just say "please call my colleague on xxx.xxx" or "call me back on xxx.xxx" if band-boxed.
There is a more descriptive text version of the FIS sectors in the AIP, but an associated chart would certainly help.
Edit to add a link to the definitive but not user friendly FS Sector list
The smaller FIS chart (which I have never spotted before, tucked in the corner) would be very useful, as you say, if it did not group the sectors together. In reality, you could dial in the first frequency in the list and if it was wrong the controller would just say "please call my colleague on xxx.xxx" or "call me back on xxx.xxx" if band-boxed.
There is a more descriptive text version of the FIS sectors in the AIP, but an associated chart would certainly help.
Edit to add a link to the definitive but not user friendly FS Sector list
Last edited by Tall_Guy_in_a_PA28; 2nd January 2014 at 16:01.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 862
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From: Swindon, Wiltshire
To be honest, I really wouldn't worry about it.
They are pretty much universally friendly and helpful. If you call up on the wrong frequency, they will soon have you on your way...
Just so you know, under the hood, SkyDemon have mapped all the FIS sectors. So when you tap the button to bring up the frequency list, the one at the top will always be the correct one. When you are within a few nm of a boundary, it will show both.
Sorry about that chart, but it's the only one I know with all the frequencies, and I too had missed the little insert at the top right... Just print that as your backup
Another thing to consider for your trip is to use the class 'E' airways. You can do a pseudo IFR flight that way routing along the airways. For a non IR pilot like myself, this was good fun.
They are pretty much universally friendly and helpful. If you call up on the wrong frequency, they will soon have you on your way...
Just so you know, under the hood, SkyDemon have mapped all the FIS sectors. So when you tap the button to bring up the frequency list, the one at the top will always be the correct one. When you are within a few nm of a boundary, it will show both.
Sorry about that chart, but it's the only one I know with all the frequencies, and I too had missed the little insert at the top right... Just print that as your backup
Another thing to consider for your trip is to use the class 'E' airways. You can do a pseudo IFR flight that way routing along the airways. For a non IR pilot like myself, this was good fun.
