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Love flying, not keen on dying :))

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Love flying, not keen on dying :))

Old 22nd Dec 2013, 14:37
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 218
If you spend all of your life assessing and apportioning risk to all of your activities you would never get anything done. Yeah flying can be risky for a variety of reasons, so what? If we all stay in bed all day then the chances of being killed in an air/road/rail/sea accident are significantly reduced.

You don't have to analyse it to the nth degree. Just accept there is some risk involved as with all adventurous activities. Then decide to do it or not do it, it's not a hard call to make.
Dave Wilson is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 14:37
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
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eyesup......

I learned flying on a TMG back in 1983, got my PPL for it in 1984. I then turned to Pipers, etc. because I had 2 kids and hoped to take my kids along for flights. I was really addicted to flying and had some really nice flights. In March this year I survived my (only) serious accident...in a TMG. As is often the case, the PIC made some mistake...... he was a very experienced pilot (82 yrs. old with 8000+ hours)...... he did NOT survive (and I am now in a wheel chair).

Don't be so afraid! Your drive to the airfield is more dangerous. Do what you want and learn all you can! Your best safety insurance is knowledge!
WestWind1950 is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 15:11
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: N.YORKSHIRE
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LOL, that made my day, thank you
I know what LOC is but this has defeated me.
Flyingmac is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 18:00
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: E Anglia
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Interesting to see that over on the Light Side where a no flaming on the Studes forum rule exists this thread has already died the death....
Cusco is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 18:12
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Manchester
Age: 37
Posts: 120
You realise that, statistically, flying VFR in VMC in controlled airspace is far more likely to lead to a mid-air collision than flying IFR in IMC in uncontrolled airspace? If you're going to fly based on a risk assessment you do have to follow through on the logic rather than what may intuitively feel safe!
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Old 22nd Dec 2013, 19:10
  #106 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 27
I can find no reference to R-LOC anywhere. Emailed a few buddies who between them have over 100,000 hours. No joy. Has anyone else ever heard the well-documented term R-LOC? Anyone? Anyone at all?
But you said you already knew what that was ? You're now beginning to contradict yourself, which I suppose is to be expected.

Look up the term wing-loading and try and work out why if one airplane weighs 472.5kg and the other identical looking one weighs 600kg they fly differently.
(draws a long breath). You have missed the point, in your emotionally charged rant. The fact is.........LSA have more Runway Loss of Control (that would be spelt R-LOC, just in case you were wondering) than regular GA aircraft - mostly attributed to their vulnerability to cross-winds, and gusts in particular. Again, RELATIVE TO GA ALTERNATIVES. It doesn't matter a toss whether it's 472.5 kg here and 600 or whatever it is over there. It's about the category they are registered in, and that data (incidentally from the US with it's heavier LSA than here in Germany!) supports the finding. Why is that so hard for you to accept ? Are you as stubborn in the air as you are in this forum? Please then let me know when & where you are flying for if you are in the air I would prefer not to be.

You could call them whatever you want, but the higher incidence of running off runways compared to GA is acknowledged. Except by you, who of course has better experience, data and insight. Because you've flown an FK 12, right ? Of course you have (despite not knowing it was from Germany)

Your obsession with the sim thing is quite interesting though. I have more real hours than sim hours (pretty easy since I have no sim). Now, in the interests of sending this thread to it's natural death, just answer one (ok, it's actually two) last question(s) for me : Are you really that ignorant (tell me you've been joking all along), or are you actively in denial ?

You don't have to analyse it to the nth degree. Just accept there is some risk involved as with all adventurous activities. Then decide to do it or not do it, it's not a hard call to make.
Dave, thank you, you are right. Thing is though, and I openly admit this (and therefore started the OP), is that I simply don't believe I properly understand the risks involved, yet. There has indeed been some very helpful advice and even contact on this forum. However, there have also been (like many other things in life I guess) some folks who despite clear, logical and substantiated facts still choose to argue - for whatever reason
eyesup is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 19:32
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,469
I simply don't believe I properly understand the risks involved
Risks can't be understood. Try to, and you can only fail. Risks can, to a very basic degree, be assessed in statistics.
Jan Olieslagers is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 20:08
  #108 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 27
Risks can't be understood. Try to, and you can only fail. Risks can, to a very basic degree, be assessed in statistics.
Sorry Jan, I respectfully disagree, that is a really shortsighted statement to make. Research, data and statistics are all there to help you. It takes a little effort, but risks can and should be understood, and then managed as best as possible. That is your job as PIC of whatever you fly.
eyesup is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 20:12
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
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Well, ok, then. As others have said, you do seem to have all the required info at hand, and to know what criteria to decide by. Nothing more we can do for you, then. Happy flying!
Jan Olieslagers is online now  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 20:23
  #110 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 27
eyesup......

I learned flying on a TMG back in 1983, got my PPL for it in 1984. I then turned to Pipers, etc. because I had 2 kids and hoped to take my kids along for flights. I was really addicted to flying and had some really nice flights. In March this year I survived my (only) serious accident...in a TMG. As is often the case, the PIC made some mistake...... he was a very experienced pilot (82 yrs. old with 8000+ hours)...... he did NOT survive (and I am now in a wheel chair).

Don't be so afraid! Your drive to the airfield is more dangerous. Do what you want and learn all you can! Your best safety insurance is knowledge!
Westwind, thank you for sharing that with me / us, and I mean that most sincerely. I am very sorry indeed to hear of this. I wish you well with your recovery, both physically and emotionally. I have a myriad questions about what went wrong, and why, but simply out of respect for you and your late friend, I will leave how much you wish to share entirely up to you.

Again, thank you, and all the very best
Andre
eyesup is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 21:15
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near the watter...
Age: 73
Posts: 251
The past 6 pages are a total waste of space. If you want to fly......then FLY!! There is no known substitute. If you want to live forever, stay in bed.

Most people die there, anyway.....
Molemot is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 21:36
  #112 (permalink)  
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This is going nowhere.

Move on, everyone.

Go flying, or failing that, just go.

Have a nice, politically correct, non-religiously specific, healthful and safe, security conscious festive season.

SD
Saab Dastard is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 21:41
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 218
Eyesup may I ask a serious question? Do you analyse the risk of driving to the same extent as you do flying? If not, why not? What about climbing the ladder to clear out the guttering come Autumn?

If you are not a troll, and I'm seriously beginning to doubt it then I would stay away from aviation, simply because of the enormous stress it is going to place on you. That, believe it or not is not meant to be a slight against you. You may reply that you are trying to assess the risks as a father (I'm the father of two and the grandfather of three, I take my eight year old grandson flying), but if it worries you so much then why do you want to do it? It is risky, everything has risk involved. If you need to define and assess the risk as much as you seemingly want to, then may I respectfully suggest that aviation is probably not for you.

Being a pilot seems to demand a certain personality type, and I'm not a psychologist, just reflecting on the people I know who are pilots. You have to ask yourself if you are of that personality type.
Dave Wilson is offline  
Old 22nd Dec 2013, 21:48
  #114 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 27
Over and doubt.....

Well I guess that's that then. Thank you for the input, most of which was very helpful, but all of which was revealing. No trolls here mate
eyesup is offline  

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