Flying Harvards
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
T_M, you first-soloed the Tiger! Well done ! Your achievement is doubly worthy of celebration
FFF
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Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
Thanks for your kind posts.
I'd like a trip in your plane FNG but I doubt my navexes will take me to White Waltham: Luton and Stanstead in the way, my instructors will probably insist on a less cluttered north westerly trip. Maybe if I get a car I could drive down there some day though, very kind of you to offer.
Can anyone clarify this mystery over how much training WW2 pilots did? Surely 30 hours on Tigers then straight onto spits couldn't have been normal. And the RAF did use lots of Harvards didn't they?
Lowtimer: I think you sent me a private message but it hasn't arrived/doesn't work or something.
I'd like a trip in your plane FNG but I doubt my navexes will take me to White Waltham: Luton and Stanstead in the way, my instructors will probably insist on a less cluttered north westerly trip. Maybe if I get a car I could drive down there some day though, very kind of you to offer.
Can anyone clarify this mystery over how much training WW2 pilots did? Surely 30 hours on Tigers then straight onto spits couldn't have been normal. And the RAF did use lots of Harvards didn't they?
Lowtimer: I think you sent me a private message but it hasn't arrived/doesn't work or something.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: Rhode Island, USA
Ahh excuse me I have a question!
I have been reading about these Harvards and checking the web sites you all have linked to this thread. I never knew one could go up in a plane with an instructor and actually take the controls for a moment or two. Are there other planes I could do this in or do I need to go to FL to this place in Kissmee (sp). I would love to learn what it feels like to fly a plane, I don't ever expect to have the time to get a pvt. license but I'd love to know what it feels like. Anyone care to offer some free advice.
I have been reading about these Harvards and checking the web sites you all have linked to this thread. I never knew one could go up in a plane with an instructor and actually take the controls for a moment or two. Are there other planes I could do this in or do I need to go to FL to this place in Kissmee (sp). I would love to learn what it feels like to fly a plane, I don't ever expect to have the time to get a pvt. license but I'd love to know what it feels like. Anyone care to offer some free advice.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
T_Richard,
If you want to take the controls of an aircraft, you can do that at just about any flying school. What you're looking for is a "trial lesson" or "trial flight". It'll probably include either 30 or 60 minutes of flying something like a PA28, C152 or C172, together with about 30 minutes on the ground with the instructor before you go. Just pop down to your local airfield and ask around, or look in the Yellow Pages. There's no obligation to take things any further. One word of caution, though - many people have done this, not intending to take it any further than the trial lesson, have become instantly hooked, and have found the time and money which they didn't think they had to go on and get the license!
On the other hand, if you're looking to fly an old or interesting aircraft like the Harvard, you'll need to look a bit further. These flights are normally billed as lessons, they have the same legal status as a lesson, and the instructor will have the same qualifications as the instructor at your local flight school. But you might find it's slightly less hands-on than a genuine trial lesson - that's because it's aimed more as a birthday present for grandad than as a sample to get you hooked. This is, of course, a generalisation, but if you want hands-on flying and an interesting aircraft, then make sure your instructor knows that before you take off.
Have fun!
FFF
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If you want to take the controls of an aircraft, you can do that at just about any flying school. What you're looking for is a "trial lesson" or "trial flight". It'll probably include either 30 or 60 minutes of flying something like a PA28, C152 or C172, together with about 30 minutes on the ground with the instructor before you go. Just pop down to your local airfield and ask around, or look in the Yellow Pages. There's no obligation to take things any further. One word of caution, though - many people have done this, not intending to take it any further than the trial lesson, have become instantly hooked, and have found the time and money which they didn't think they had to go on and get the license!
On the other hand, if you're looking to fly an old or interesting aircraft like the Harvard, you'll need to look a bit further. These flights are normally billed as lessons, they have the same legal status as a lesson, and the instructor will have the same qualifications as the instructor at your local flight school. But you might find it's slightly less hands-on than a genuine trial lesson - that's because it's aimed more as a birthday present for grandad than as a sample to get you hooked. This is, of course, a generalisation, but if you want hands-on flying and an interesting aircraft, then make sure your instructor knows that before you take off.
Have fun!
FFF
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: Rhode Island, USA
Thanks FFF,
It is probably a coincidence that there are three small airports within 40 miles of me that have teaching programs. I'll have to take my chances I guess. Just what I need another inexpensive avocation; (I own a 35' sailboat, a major cash drain) Ah well life is short
Cheers
It is probably a coincidence that there are three small airports within 40 miles of me that have teaching programs. I'll have to take my chances I guess. Just what I need another inexpensive avocation; (I own a 35' sailboat, a major cash drain) Ah well life is short
Cheers
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Get thee to an airport!
FFF is quite correct. Most places that offer flights in expensive / rare / complex aircraft like the Harvard are not going to permit a customer to do any hands-on stuff except at altitude, but an instructor at a local flying school equipped with a simple airplane (Cessna 152, etc.) may well talk the customer through the takeoff and most of the circuit, taking control only on short final for the actual landing.
T_richard, what are you waiting for??!!
T_richard, what are you waiting for??!!
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: Devon, UK
Harvard
Just looked at my old RAF logbook, out of curiosity. It shows -
First solo on Tiger Moth after 10 hrs dual, then a total of 74 hrs, dual & solo, (x-countries, aerobatics, restarting-the-engine-in-flight, under-the-hood IF, night flying, formation flying, low-flying. All wonderful stuff for a 'teen-ager)
Then Service Flying Training School and 4hrs55m Harvard dual before first Harvard solo.
All yonks ago in S. Rhodesia (as was) where there was no weather, and the landscape seemed to go on for ever.
Ah
WS
First solo on Tiger Moth after 10 hrs dual, then a total of 74 hrs, dual & solo, (x-countries, aerobatics, restarting-the-engine-in-flight, under-the-hood IF, night flying, formation flying, low-flying. All wonderful stuff for a 'teen-ager)
Then Service Flying Training School and 4hrs55m Harvard dual before first Harvard solo.
All yonks ago in S. Rhodesia (as was) where there was no weather, and the landscape seemed to go on for ever.
Ah
WS
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
From: Rhode Island, USA
I am certifiable (nuts that is) I have a friend USN ret who has flown since the Wright brothers. He has hooked me up with a flight school for a trial flight. God, I hope I hate it or get airsick or struck by lightning. Otherwise I'm on the way to a PPL. I must be crazy.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: SUSSEX
Flying Harvards
In reply to some of the questions about flying Harvards
Unfortunately the T6 at EGKA has now been sold and has gone to pastures new at EGFF.I was was fortunate to be able to check out on it in Summer of 2001 and managed to get 25 hours solo on it up to September 2002 when it sadly departed.It took about 4 hours to go solo.I've flown Super cubs J3s Citabrias Chipmunks Stampes Stearmans and various Pa28s in my PPL time.It was expensive £450 an hour but what the hell when an ordinary PPL gets the chance to fly something a little different.One thing for sure my bank balance went up when it was sold.It was interesting taking her to Sandown and meeting various old guys who would come up and talk about the last time they flew Harvards and what they went on to fly afterwards.
The two aircraft at EGHR which were mentioned,One a Harvard 2 is up for sale for around £70,000 so if anyone feels generous enough and the other one was a rare Navy SNJ owned by Dave Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame.I think this one has now departed
A Tiger Moth sounds very interesting but I believe the only two places anyone can hire one is the Tiger Club and Cambridge.Maybe someone knows different?
Unfortunately the T6 at EGKA has now been sold and has gone to pastures new at EGFF.I was was fortunate to be able to check out on it in Summer of 2001 and managed to get 25 hours solo on it up to September 2002 when it sadly departed.It took about 4 hours to go solo.I've flown Super cubs J3s Citabrias Chipmunks Stampes Stearmans and various Pa28s in my PPL time.It was expensive £450 an hour but what the hell when an ordinary PPL gets the chance to fly something a little different.One thing for sure my bank balance went up when it was sold.It was interesting taking her to Sandown and meeting various old guys who would come up and talk about the last time they flew Harvards and what they went on to fly afterwards.
The two aircraft at EGHR which were mentioned,One a Harvard 2 is up for sale for around £70,000 so if anyone feels generous enough and the other one was a rare Navy SNJ owned by Dave Gilmour of Pink Floyd fame.I think this one has now departed
A Tiger Moth sounds very interesting but I believe the only two places anyone can hire one is the Tiger Club and Cambridge.Maybe someone knows different?
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
No rush, T_M, you could always drift down Walthamwards after you have your licence (which sounds like it should happen some time later this year), or we could meet up somewhere in between, such as Andrewsfield, which is a pleasant enough spot, particularly as I'm due for another aero-safari round the excellent airfields of East Anglia, something I haven't done for a while.
As for the enquiries re renting Tiger Moths, I think, although I'm not sure, that you can do this at Sywell as well as Headcorn and Cambridge (assuming you are looking to check out for solo hire). Otherwise you could try getting to know some of the numerous private Moth operators at places like Waltham and trade rides in their machines for rides in something interesting of your own.
As for the enquiries re renting Tiger Moths, I think, although I'm not sure, that you can do this at Sywell as well as Headcorn and Cambridge (assuming you are looking to check out for solo hire). Otherwise you could try getting to know some of the numerous private Moth operators at places like Waltham and trade rides in their machines for rides in something interesting of your own.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 0
From: South Norfolk, England
Tigermoth ... well done on first soloing the Tigermoth. I take it you did it at the CFG? I did the same in 1990 when I converted from gliders.
Having learnt on the DH82a I have never found flying any taildragger a problem ( a challenge maybe, but not a problem ). With the background of starting on the Tigermoth and the experience you inevitably gain as you go along, each subsiquent type is pretty easy. I wouldn't want to go straight from Tigers to Spitfires though, as you'd never be prepared for the speed at which you cover the ground
I believe most RAF pilots moved on from basic training on the DH82 to Miles Masters, Harvards, ect, to learn more about complex types with CS props, retract undercats ect before ending up going off to fighter or bomber training.
IM
Does Bill Ison and Jock ( can't remember surname ) still teach there?
Having learnt on the DH82a I have never found flying any taildragger a problem ( a challenge maybe, but not a problem ). With the background of starting on the Tigermoth and the experience you inevitably gain as you go along, each subsiquent type is pretty easy. I wouldn't want to go straight from Tigers to Spitfires though, as you'd never be prepared for the speed at which you cover the ground
I believe most RAF pilots moved on from basic training on the DH82 to Miles Masters, Harvards, ect, to learn more about complex types with CS props, retract undercats ect before ending up going off to fighter or bomber training.IM
Does Bill Ison and Jock ( can't remember surname ) still teach there?
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Canada
The following is an extract from a local news item from Niagara Falls, Ontario:
Is that a Spitfire in your hangar?
What does a newly minted multimillionaire who successfully sued the Disney empire buy with his money? A vintage Second World War Spitfire airplane, that’s what 66-year-old architect Ed Russell, now living in Fonthill, did with $2.2 million of his lucre he shared in a (US) $240 million settlement he shared with businessman Nicholas Stracick, also from Fonthill.
The two men had their sports complex idea, appropriated by the Walt Disney Co. which, in turn, had asked a Florida appellate court to overturn the jury verdict that awarded them the money.
The Spitfire Mark IX was flown by the RAF’s 312 Squadron in the war, and is one of only 51 airworthy Spitfires still flying. Russell as yet doesn’t fly and will likely keep the classic fighter at the Welland Airport.
See further here, here, and here
Isn't it nice to have money?!
Is that a Spitfire in your hangar?
What does a newly minted multimillionaire who successfully sued the Disney empire buy with his money? A vintage Second World War Spitfire airplane, that’s what 66-year-old architect Ed Russell, now living in Fonthill, did with $2.2 million of his lucre he shared in a (US) $240 million settlement he shared with businessman Nicholas Stracick, also from Fonthill.
The two men had their sports complex idea, appropriated by the Walt Disney Co. which, in turn, had asked a Florida appellate court to overturn the jury verdict that awarded them the money.
The Spitfire Mark IX was flown by the RAF’s 312 Squadron in the war, and is one of only 51 airworthy Spitfires still flying. Russell as yet doesn’t fly and will likely keep the classic fighter at the Welland Airport.
See further here, here, and here
Isn't it nice to have money?!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Is that a Spitfire in your hanger?
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
Alright D'vay, you naer-do-well!
I had totally forgotten about this post, funny looking back at it!
I haven't cashed in my Cap10 offer, so now that I might actually learn to drive maybe I could get down there, with a printout of this thread as my "flight voucher"!
I suppose by the time I have enough money to go galavanting in Harvards I could talk to AB who will have done his course in the states by then.
I had totally forgotten about this post, funny looking back at it!
I haven't cashed in my Cap10 offer, so now that I might actually learn to drive maybe I could get down there, with a printout of this thread as my "flight voucher"!
I suppose by the time I have enough money to go galavanting in Harvards I could talk to AB who will have done his course in the states by then.
