Ditching

[Romeo Tango]

It is sometimes interesting to go to the edge .... but one needs to understand the edge one is dealing with.

[Pace]

One favourite saying of mine is " If you never push the boundaries you will never find what lies beyond ! ". So true in every field of life but in pushing those boundaries make sure the beyond is something you are prepared for as the beyond which is relatively unknown might be something which is more than you can handle.

Pace

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I think Old Fat One has it. I used to regularly fly BPL - IOM in a fixed gear single; I wouldn't do it now. If the engine fails, you are almost certainly going to die. Maybe I'm older and wiser or just seen a bit more over the decades of aviating.

I can't rationalise flying single engine water these days. It goes against my aviation principle of 'always having an out'. If the engine fails over land I'm reasonably confident of living, even maybe walking away. I just can't trust my life to the bag of mechanical bits that comprise an engine and fuel system, knowing that if it fails (and they do as I know from experience!) I'll die.

[Romeo Tango]

"Almost certainly" going to die is a bit strong. Even "probably" is too much. I think "quite likely" covers it. If you are on the ball, have an ELT and a good dingy it is could be "maybe".

Anyway, as has been done to death in another thread, if you remember to maintain your engine and put fuel in it, it is very unlikely to let you down.

I fly SE in all weathers and times of day over water and expect to die in bed.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

if you remember to maintain your engine and put fuel in it, it is very unlikely to let you down.

'Very unlikely to fail' doesn't cut it in my book when there is no 'out' if it does let go. My experience (both first hand and observed in the experiences of other experienced pilots - all while flying over land, thankfully) is that even the best maintained engines in regular trouble-free use and with plenty of fuel correctly selected can and do (rarely, it's true) fail. But fail they can; be in no doubt of that.

A dingy might help. If you've room for one in the aircraft you fly.

[funfly]

I am surprised that no-one has told you to make a check list.
I made a check list to suit my own aircraft for when I was over the sea.
I assumed that should an engine fail, I would be at a sensible height over the water and would therefore have quite a few minutes before getting down to ditching level.
Making the list was good in itself as it made me think specific to my own aircraft.
After basic engine failure checks I listed in order the things that might get muddled. Things like get your position from the GPS and write it down, call mayday then remove headset and get the rubber helmet of the wetsuit on. Get the rubber gloves on. Make sure the location beacon is handy and clipped to you not the aircraft, deal with passenger, make sure the door is unlatched.
I can't remember all the things but I know that there would be plenty of time between cruising height and water level to do things methodically.
Getting down to water level will be the easy bit it is entering the water that it is all about. Your screen will likely come in and you may have problems getting out. If you prepare yourself for the cold shock and an upside down position you will be less surprised when it happens. Remember your engine will very likely try to take the craft down so getting out is important.
I have never been impressed by inflatable dinghies unless they get outside by themselves, can you imaging trying to heave one from the back seat of a PA28 for example and then it not being in the way when you try to get out. A full immersion suit is the only way.
So among your book of checklists have a 'ditching' checklist.

Off to Jersey...

[Romeo Tango]

You can't say there always has to be an 'out'. As soon as you are born you are always taking some sort of unavoidable risk, it simply depends what risk you are able/want to accept.

We will probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Pace]

Funfly

Very sensible advice! Noted the comment on getting the life raft out! In all the shock and confusion that is a very relevant point!
I mentioned jamming the door open in the glide down as water pressure can literally lock you in! Maybe part of that checklist should be jamming the door with the life raft so the door is kept open and the life raft the first thing out followed by the pilot/passengers (hardly discussed) hanging onto it

Pace

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

You can't say there always has to be an 'out'.

I can.

In aviation, which is what we're talking about, you should always have an 'out' for foreseeable possible happenings. Obviously if a wing falls off without pilot provocation it just wasn't your day, and there wasn't anything you could have done about it except not fly.

But wings don't just 'fall off'. Perfectly well maintained engines can, and do, fail however. Which is why we train for it happening.

Setting off across the sea behind a single engine is a deliberate aviation decision for which there is no 'out' if the engine fails. Many pilots are happy with that. I used to be and often did it.

I'm not now as I can no longer rationalise betting my life on the engine not failing (every egg in one basket - game over if it doesn't pay off), even though the odds are very greatly that it will continue to run just fine.

[Romeo Tango]

SSD

Yes, well, you are right (mostly). But I reserve the right to take a calculated risk from time to time.

[Dave Wilson]

This is what it comes down to, one person's calculated risk isn't the same as anothers. We could discuss this until the cows come home but at the end of the day, you are commander of the aircraft and the risk you are willing to take is entirely appropriate for you. It may not be appropriate for someone else but then they are not the commander of your aircraft.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Very true! In my case I am the same person who once upon a time was OK with a BPL - IOM crossing in a SEP, but today is not.

It's all down as to whether you rationalise the risk as acceptable, or not. I have absolutely no problem at all about pilots who do rationalise it as acceptable. I used to be one!

[Dave Wilson]

I can fully understand not wanting to be any place other than at least 5,000 ft above Blackpool so good call on your part...

[Pace]

Dave

I fully understand your right to determine the level of risk you are prepared to take and as other posters I used to do water crossings in singles myself until I regularly flew twins! After that and a few engine problems I started seeing water crossings in a single in a different light!
One question? While your prepared to take that risk for yourself what do you do with passengers take that risk decision for them too ?

Pace

[Dave Wilson]

Pace

I've never crossed water with anything other than qualified pilots on board where we have discussed the risk and done a drill for a possible ditching. Would I take non pilot pax? No. Having said that I would have no qualms about doing Dover- Cap GN at 6,000 or above (6,500 being class A of course at that point) with non pilot pax as that's within a glide of land/beach.

Edit: As an aside, I did a bit of a Scotland tour in May with a flying buddy of mine in a 28. The last leg was Leuchars-Waddington which he flew. The leg from Anstruther-Dunbar across the Firth is 15 nm, only 2 miles less than Dover-Cap GN. Taking off from Leuchars we were only at around 2,000 and climbing when we crossed the coast and never gave it a second thought as it was 'just' an estuary.

[Romeo Tango]

To each their own as you say.

I have crossed the Atlantic 5 and a half times in my Robin along with various other oceans. I think it is a good enough risk to do occasionally.

I still expect to die in bed.

[Jonzarno]

It's the idea of the "half" crossing that would worry me....

[Pace]

Dave

Crossing the channel at Dover is not such a big deal because of the volume of boats and ships
Your biggest danger is probably being run over by one not looking
I am more talking about longer crossing over more inhospitable and deserted seas!
I have done limited ferry work always multi and jet never single
When you see the vast expanse of ocean between the UK and Iceland the thought of some guy way below trundling along at 90 kts in a small piston is mind boggling! They are Either very brave or very stupid or both but I do admire them

Pace

[Romeo Tango]

They are Either very brave or very stupid or both

One does not have to be either. I have had my aircraft for 30 years, I look after and trust it. Of course one has to give that sort of flying the respect it deserves, you really cannot afford any mistakes.

I have had great experiences and seen some amazing things between Stornoway and Baffin island. Well worth a very very slight chance of death.

[Dave Wilson]

Pace

I've never understood how you can get in a 172 and fly it across the ocean, or indeed do as RT has done and take his Robin. However as he says, each to their own.