Welcome at Flying Clubs
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Welcome at Flying Clubs
The recent vetting thread mentioned the welcome that people often get at flying schools and clubs; gliding clubs and parachuting centres.
Given the fact that we're all in this because we love aviation and clubs and schools are often heard complaining about lack of members; why don't people get a better welcome?
Why does morose, surly or disinterested sum up the first impression many places give?
I've visited dozens of airfields, sometimes by road, mainly by air, and I can count the warm welcomes that I've received on one hand.
Yes, I know that it might be my miserable face turning up that caused everyone to turn sour but let's pretend it's not that; just for arguments sake.
Given the fact that we're all in this because we love aviation and clubs and schools are often heard complaining about lack of members; why don't people get a better welcome?
Why does morose, surly or disinterested sum up the first impression many places give?
I've visited dozens of airfields, sometimes by road, mainly by air, and I can count the warm welcomes that I've received on one hand.
Yes, I know that it might be my miserable face turning up that caused everyone to turn sour but let's pretend it's not that; just for arguments sake.
Similar experience about ten years ago when my family and I were looking for a sailing club to join. At some of the places no-one even spoke to us when we wandered into the clubhouse for info. Similarly when I was giving gliding a first try out.
I found it very odd....these people are supposed to be "enthusiasts" !
I found it very odd....these people are supposed to be "enthusiasts" !
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It seems to be a UK thing, in the USA its almost completely the opposite I have found, possibly because flying is more accessible over there.
It seems to be worst at smaller airfields, where they still have that mentality that they don't really like 'visitors', they just like their own circle. Thankfully I have never experienced it personally, but I have seen it go on first hand to other people.
Its not just flying though, this type of thing goes on at golf clubs, tennis clubs and all other 'rich' associated pastimes. It is strange, but unfortunately I don't think that sort of attitude is going to change, particularly in GA.
It seems to be worst at smaller airfields, where they still have that mentality that they don't really like 'visitors', they just like their own circle. Thankfully I have never experienced it personally, but I have seen it go on first hand to other people.
Its not just flying though, this type of thing goes on at golf clubs, tennis clubs and all other 'rich' associated pastimes. It is strange, but unfortunately I don't think that sort of attitude is going to change, particularly in GA.
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Sherburn I feel is crap in that respect, and quite a number of times it feels like you're putting the staff out when you go up to the flight desk.
Stark contrast to the times I spent at Thruxton and Old Sarum while based down that way with the Army. Much more friendly atmosphere down south I found, and that's coming from a Leeds lad, born and raised.
Stark contrast to the times I spent at Thruxton and Old Sarum while based down that way with the Army. Much more friendly atmosphere down south I found, and that's coming from a Leeds lad, born and raised.
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Sherburn crap?
Are there two Sherburns?
Maybe I've been lucky, but on the two occassions I've flown in the girls at the desk have been very polite and helpful.
Maybe they just recognise a fellow Yorkshireman
Maybe I've been lucky, but on the two occassions I've flown in the girls at the desk have been very polite and helpful.
Maybe they just recognise a fellow Yorkshireman
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Sherburn were great when I turned up unannounced after being cancelled (weather) for the xth time at Leeds.
When my Mum and Dad turned up for a visit, again they were well looked after.
When my Mum and Dad turned up for a visit, again they were well looked after.
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Friendly Places
Any Aeros branch will be welcoming and helpful (no I don't work for them).
The following are also nice friendly places or so I have found.
Wellesbourne
Bidford
Liecester
Wickenby
Regards
T10
The following are also nice friendly places or so I have found.
Wellesbourne
Bidford
Liecester
Wickenby
Regards
T10
I've noticed at our farmstrip in Hampshire, we get occasional gliders come in, usually from Lasham. When they do, if I'm around I usually stroll over with a greeting of "welcome, kettle's on, anything I can do to help" - the first thing I see on the glider pilot's face is relief. I'll keep doing the same, but for as long as relief is their first response - there's a problem out there.
My experience is probably 60% indifference, 10% grumpiness, 30% a friendly welcome. It could be better.
G
My experience is probably 60% indifference, 10% grumpiness, 30% a friendly welcome. It could be better.
G
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Not so good here either, according to some
maybe not too friendly, but, this is a bit of a caricature/exaggeration, although someone seems to have put a lot of effort into documenting their experience of the brush off.
A good example of mess with the younger members of society and they'll "Internet yo' ass"?
maybe not too friendly, but, this is a bit of a caricature/exaggeration, although someone seems to have put a lot of effort into documenting their experience of the brush off.
A good example of mess with the younger members of society and they'll "Internet yo' ass"?
Last edited by Ebbie 2003; 3rd Nov 2013 at 02:13.
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Apart from the odd notable exception there is a complete lack of marketing of general aviation in the UK.
Manners and courtesy cost nothing, and yet, with the notable exceptions, many clubs lack a hint of the very thing that would engender and facilitate more people to come along.
Yes, it is a very odd set up.
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Flying club 'welcomes'.
Hi Guys,
I can't speak about other countries, but I still can't imagine people being treated in other countries of the English speaking world as they are here.
I definitely think it must be a UK thing and affects many spare-time, activity clubs, not just those engaged in costly activities like flying.
It does make a difference if the place you visit has a reception desk. If it has, then the receptionists will usually ask you to sit down while they find someone to come and talk to you, which they then do quite promptly.
If there is no reception desk, however, then you can be left standing there looking like a spare part, while people mill around you going about their individual concerns, but ignoring your presence completely.
This can be partly due to a misplaced form of politeness; (i.e. not wishing to poke their noses in where it may not be wanted), but is more usually just plain unconcern.
Occasionally, you will be confronted with outright rudeness. I always remember going to have a look at a (then) new gliding club near Kidlington in the late sixties. I asked to see the CFI and was then confronted with a ferocious character who had all the charm of an Alsatian in a scrap metal yard who 'welcomed' me with the statement that he wanted 'genuine club members', not 'customers'. He didn't explain how the two differed. It was clear from his demeanour, however, that even before having spoken to me he had decided I was definitely a 'customer' and must be sent away with a flea in my ear.
In 2005, I joined a flying club at a certain aerodrome not a million miles from Woking. I attended one of their committee meetings to be interviewed and for my membership application to be vetted and I was welcomed into the club with the comment that they were 'so pleased to have another lady member'.
A few weeks later I went to their summer barbeque. I was a little late arriving and the barbeque was already in progress. All the existing members, (none of whom I knew,) were standing around in groups talking. I sat down and waited for someone at least to ask who I was and what I was doing there or else for payment of my barbeque entrance money. Not a soul came near. After half an hour I got up and left. I left the club shortly afterwards.
I have long believed that if a number of Brits were forced to share a lifeboat, the first thing they would do would be for half of the occupants of the boat to start a club with the express purpose of denying membership to the other half. That's what we're like.
Regards,
Broomstick.
I can't speak about other countries, but I still can't imagine people being treated in other countries of the English speaking world as they are here.
I definitely think it must be a UK thing and affects many spare-time, activity clubs, not just those engaged in costly activities like flying.
It does make a difference if the place you visit has a reception desk. If it has, then the receptionists will usually ask you to sit down while they find someone to come and talk to you, which they then do quite promptly.
If there is no reception desk, however, then you can be left standing there looking like a spare part, while people mill around you going about their individual concerns, but ignoring your presence completely.
This can be partly due to a misplaced form of politeness; (i.e. not wishing to poke their noses in where it may not be wanted), but is more usually just plain unconcern.
Occasionally, you will be confronted with outright rudeness. I always remember going to have a look at a (then) new gliding club near Kidlington in the late sixties. I asked to see the CFI and was then confronted with a ferocious character who had all the charm of an Alsatian in a scrap metal yard who 'welcomed' me with the statement that he wanted 'genuine club members', not 'customers'. He didn't explain how the two differed. It was clear from his demeanour, however, that even before having spoken to me he had decided I was definitely a 'customer' and must be sent away with a flea in my ear.
In 2005, I joined a flying club at a certain aerodrome not a million miles from Woking. I attended one of their committee meetings to be interviewed and for my membership application to be vetted and I was welcomed into the club with the comment that they were 'so pleased to have another lady member'.
A few weeks later I went to their summer barbeque. I was a little late arriving and the barbeque was already in progress. All the existing members, (none of whom I knew,) were standing around in groups talking. I sat down and waited for someone at least to ask who I was and what I was doing there or else for payment of my barbeque entrance money. Not a soul came near. After half an hour I got up and left. I left the club shortly afterwards.
I have long believed that if a number of Brits were forced to share a lifeboat, the first thing they would do would be for half of the occupants of the boat to start a club with the express purpose of denying membership to the other half. That's what we're like.
Regards,
Broomstick.
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It's a bit like the old tale about the different nationalities that were stranded on a desert island and apart from the Brits they all formed their own various communities. A year later when someone asked the Brits why they weren't talking to each other, the answer was : "Oh we're still waiting for someone to introduce us."
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Sadly it’s nothing new.
Some time in late 1991 my GF at the time and I decided it would nice to learn to fly together. I bought the news stand GA magazines and looked up the flight training, adverts for which filled up a good proportion of the magazine. We went down to Shoreham airport and were lured in by a welcoming sign outside one of the flying club / schools. As posters above have described, once through the door we were completely ignored. It is a socially alien environment, so new folks need some sort of welcome. After being ignored for a few minutes we left. £6K of training income (at 1991 prices) walked out of the door. I’ve no doubt the club complained bitterly, among themselves, about the lack of new people joining.
Sadly it’s not just a UK problem. There’s an article in Flying Magazine, reprinted in the More BAX Seat collection describing exactly the same problem in the ‘States.
It doesn’t need the busy Instructor or Top Brass at a flight school to talk to potential customers. A pre-solo student pilot will probably be one of the most enthusiastic people you will find in the building. They may get a bit ‘off message’ but they will probably be honest about their experience. If that experience is good then all is well. If not, perhaps the school needs to look inside before looking outside.
As well as flight schools we can do something about it ourselves. I’ll risk the wrath of the assembled company by attaching a link to a rant of mine that AOPA UK printed in the April 2013 issue (page 58) of the magazine.
GA Magazine - April 2013
Sadly it’s not just a UK problem. There’s an article in Flying Magazine, reprinted in the More BAX Seat collection describing exactly the same problem in the ‘States.
It doesn’t need the busy Instructor or Top Brass at a flight school to talk to potential customers. A pre-solo student pilot will probably be one of the most enthusiastic people you will find in the building. They may get a bit ‘off message’ but they will probably be honest about their experience. If that experience is good then all is well. If not, perhaps the school needs to look inside before looking outside.
As well as flight schools we can do something about it ourselves. I’ll risk the wrath of the assembled company by attaching a link to a rant of mine that AOPA UK printed in the April 2013 issue (page 58) of the magazine.
GA Magazine - April 2013
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GTE
Hit the nail on the head, i've seen the same thing at the farm strip here, upon visitors arrival I sometimes run over on the quad to check out their machine and chat about their days flying etc, upon pulling up and prior to extending a welcome I can tell by their expression the are expecting the "Get orf my land" routine. Shame really, but on the flip side it makes you put the extra effort into being a tad more polite to make them feel welcome (even for the smart arses 
)
the first thing I see on the glider pilot's face is relief. I'll keep doing the same, but for as long as relief is their first response - there's a problem out there
)
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This can be partly due to a misplaced form of politeness; (i.e. not wishing to poke their noses in where it may not be wanted), but is more usually just plain unconcern.
A few weeks later I went to their summer barbeque. I was a little late arriving and the barbeque was already in progress. All the existing members, (none of whom I knew,) were standing around in groups talking. I sat down and waited for someone at least to ask who I was and what I was doing there or else for payment of my barbeque entrance money. Not a soul came near. After half an hour I got up and left.
Nothing to do with the class system, I've walked into pubs in very 'ordinary' locations where the regulars have looked at me as though I had just stepped off Mars and been in upmarket pubs where the welcome has been quite the opposite.
I think it's more to do with the selfish society in which we live, where so many [not all, thankfully] think only of themselves?
H49
I think it's more to do with the selfish society in which we live, where so many [not all, thankfully] think only of themselves?
H49
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not just Britain, same here as well.
I've never experienced rudeness but casual indifference seems to be the order of the day.
my compulsive need to be early means I've sat for a fair few hours in our reception area and again I wouldn't call it rudeness but I'm astounded as to how paying customers are treated. Especially those on "intro. flights". You should be treating them like fricken royalty so that they'll come back.
I've never experienced rudeness but casual indifference seems to be the order of the day.
my compulsive need to be early means I've sat for a fair few hours in our reception area and again I wouldn't call it rudeness but I'm astounded as to how paying customers are treated. Especially those on "intro. flights". You should be treating them like fricken royalty so that they'll come back.
Avoid imitations
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I attended the AGM of a flying club not long back. Most of the discussion revolved around a proposal to deny social members a full vote at future AGMs, a vote was to be taken. Apparently some flying members were afraid that they might be outvoted by social members, regarding the running of the club - even though the former outnumber the latter by about 4 to 1!
I pondered where all these concerned flying members actually were on that evening - only about 50 people in all were in attendance.... out of some 300 or so.
I've been a member of said club since the late 1980s. Initially I was a full flying member but for the last few years I've stopped flying from there and taken a social membership instead. I'm still a regular customer of the restaurant and try to support all the social events, if nothing else for a bit of loyalty. As I pointed out to one flying member, who said he didn't recognise many people - the social members patronise the restaurant so it remains profitable (and available to all) whereas the flying members turn up, and fly off elsewhere and eat at someone else's airfield restaurant.
Since becoming a social member I had always previously abstained from voting at any AGM, but of course this time I made sure I cast my vote. Thankfully common sense prevailed and the proposal was defeated.
It's possibly the "antisocial" flying club member who prefers not to give visitors much of a welcome because they simply see any visitors walking in as a negative thing.
I pondered where all these concerned flying members actually were on that evening - only about 50 people in all were in attendance.... out of some 300 or so.
I've been a member of said club since the late 1980s. Initially I was a full flying member but for the last few years I've stopped flying from there and taken a social membership instead. I'm still a regular customer of the restaurant and try to support all the social events, if nothing else for a bit of loyalty. As I pointed out to one flying member, who said he didn't recognise many people - the social members patronise the restaurant so it remains profitable (and available to all) whereas the flying members turn up, and fly off elsewhere and eat at someone else's airfield restaurant.
Since becoming a social member I had always previously abstained from voting at any AGM, but of course this time I made sure I cast my vote. Thankfully common sense prevailed and the proposal was defeated.
It's possibly the "antisocial" flying club member who prefers not to give visitors much of a welcome because they simply see any visitors walking in as a negative thing.