Future: NPPL or PPL(Or Conversion?)
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Joined: Oct 2013
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From: Perth
Future: NPPL or PPL(Or Conversion?)
Hello there,
It's my first post on this forum. To begin with my name is Maciej and I am 17 years old. I am interested in aviation from time when I turned 12 and I aspire to become a commercial pilot in the future.
I have recently started flying at Scone Airport (EGPT) as I have got one of the Take-Off Scholarship. I am flying on a Eurostar EV97 and I now have done 7 out of 10 hours as P/UT.
I am wondering what's going to be cheapest for me but also what will work out better:
Taking those 10 hours, doing another 22 hours and doing the NPPL and then converting it to PPL (one of the questions here is how many hours will I need to do to get the PPL)
OR
Taking those 10 hours and carrying them forward towards the PPL and doing PPL straight away.
I have checked the NPPL website for those details but I feel it doesn't really clarify the requirments for hour conversion.
Any answers and experiences would be good!
Mac...
It's my first post on this forum. To begin with my name is Maciej and I am 17 years old. I am interested in aviation from time when I turned 12 and I aspire to become a commercial pilot in the future.
I have recently started flying at Scone Airport (EGPT) as I have got one of the Take-Off Scholarship. I am flying on a Eurostar EV97 and I now have done 7 out of 10 hours as P/UT.
I am wondering what's going to be cheapest for me but also what will work out better:
Taking those 10 hours, doing another 22 hours and doing the NPPL and then converting it to PPL (one of the questions here is how many hours will I need to do to get the PPL)
OR
Taking those 10 hours and carrying them forward towards the PPL and doing PPL straight away.
I have checked the NPPL website for those details but I feel it doesn't really clarify the requirments for hour conversion.
Any answers and experiences would be good!
Mac...
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 896
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From: Strathaven Airfield
OK, here goes:
(but your instructors should also know this!)
You can get an NPPL rated for microlights on the Scone Eurostar.
(while the syllabus is a minimum of 25 hours, you will probably take more)
You can then do a minimum of three hours further training to add a Simple Single Engined Aircraft (SSEA) - basically, a light aircraft - rating to your NPPL (M).
---- if you did your NPPL (M) in 25 hours, you would also have to have 32 hours total time, so would need a couple of extra hours on top of the 3hrs minimum ------------
So you now have an NPPL (M) & (SSEA).
Until 2015, you can trade your NPPL (SSEA) for a EASA LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilot's Licence).
Then you can convert your LAPL to an EASA SEP (Single Engined Piston) - basically, a light aircraft.
Finally, you can then start to add various other rating to your EASA SEP.
**********************
I run a microlight school in Scotland, and therefore know the transfer routes to be able to fly light aircraft - particularly those operated on a Permit to Fly and therefore outside EASA's rules.
How to progress from a LAPL to an EASA SEP, I am less sure about. Any competent GA school should know all the NPPL (SSEA) - LALP - EASAE SEP stuff.
Learning to fly at my airfield on a microlight can give a reasonable saving due to our lack of landing fees and cheaper hourly rates. Other airfields may differ.
I do often advise people set on a CPL as their end goal to simply start on a EASA SEP, so not to start training with us.
But if you are wanting to learn to fly for fun and possibly go for a CPL later, then the NPPL (M) route above may - depending on airfields and prices - prove a money saver.
(but your instructors should also know this!)
You can get an NPPL rated for microlights on the Scone Eurostar.
(while the syllabus is a minimum of 25 hours, you will probably take more)
You can then do a minimum of three hours further training to add a Simple Single Engined Aircraft (SSEA) - basically, a light aircraft - rating to your NPPL (M).
---- if you did your NPPL (M) in 25 hours, you would also have to have 32 hours total time, so would need a couple of extra hours on top of the 3hrs minimum ------------
So you now have an NPPL (M) & (SSEA).
Until 2015, you can trade your NPPL (SSEA) for a EASA LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilot's Licence).
Then you can convert your LAPL to an EASA SEP (Single Engined Piston) - basically, a light aircraft.
Finally, you can then start to add various other rating to your EASA SEP.
**********************
I run a microlight school in Scotland, and therefore know the transfer routes to be able to fly light aircraft - particularly those operated on a Permit to Fly and therefore outside EASA's rules.
How to progress from a LAPL to an EASA SEP, I am less sure about. Any competent GA school should know all the NPPL (SSEA) - LALP - EASAE SEP stuff.
Learning to fly at my airfield on a microlight can give a reasonable saving due to our lack of landing fees and cheaper hourly rates. Other airfields may differ.
I do often advise people set on a CPL as their end goal to simply start on a EASA SEP, so not to start training with us.
But if you are wanting to learn to fly for fun and possibly go for a CPL later, then the NPPL (M) route above may - depending on airfields and prices - prove a money saver.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 541
Likes: 2
From: Here and there
Just to clarify a few comments above...
A NPPL is valid for use on EASA aircraft until 08th April 2015.
See EASA Part-FCL FCL.210.A (b) - also in CAP 804 Section 4 Part C Subpart 1.
The conversion process detailed in CAP 804 does not contain an expiry date. I would expect this conversion to be available after April 2015.
Hopefully any microlight school will also make you aware that flight time accrued in microlights (presently) does not count towards those hours required towards the issue of a EASA commercial pilots licence.
ifitaint...
You won't be able to use an NPPL to fly EASA aircraft (ie ones that have a certificate of airworthiness, not a permit to fly) after 8th April 2014, so you might as well just get the full PPL.
How to progress from a LAPL to an EASA SEP, I am less sure about.
Until 2015, you can trade your NPPL (SSEA) for a EASA LAPL (Light Aircraft Pilot's Licence).
I do often advise people set on a CPL as their end goal to simply start on a EASA SEP, so not to start training with us.
ifitaint...
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Reading
I got my NPPL(M) in IkarusC42 few months ago with about 32hrs total time. It cost me about half of what I would pay if I went for NPPL(SSEA) straight away. Plus I felt much better in a 2 year old Ikarus than in 30+yrs. old C152 I tried before ;-)
Now working on the SSEA rating. In addition to the 3 hrs minimum (which realistically is 5-7hrs if you go for something like PA28) you need to sit two EASA exams - Aircraft General and Flight Performance and Planning.
I have no doubts the above is a cheaper and more enjoyable way of obtaining LAPL.
As far as LAPL -> PPL upgrade, my understanding based on CAP 804, Section 4, Part C, Subpart 1, (b), is that you need 10 hrs. flight instruction at an ATO. For the additional 15 hours of flying time cited in (b), up to 10hrs you can get from your Microlight experience, given you did 100hrs in M, hmm...
So speaking bare minimums, you could get an EASA PPL(A) with:
If you move pass the PPL stage forget all your Microlight hours as they won't count into anything apart from revalidating your M rating on your NPPL. However, keep in mind that a modern Microlight can really deliver with much less total cost of ownership than a group A. If you love flying I bet you will continue to fly one of these even on a CPL ;-)
My recommendation would be get your NPPL(M) to keep you aloft and see what the future brings.
Now working on the SSEA rating. In addition to the 3 hrs minimum (which realistically is 5-7hrs if you go for something like PA28) you need to sit two EASA exams - Aircraft General and Flight Performance and Planning.
I have no doubts the above is a cheaper and more enjoyable way of obtaining LAPL.
As far as LAPL -> PPL upgrade, my understanding based on CAP 804, Section 4, Part C, Subpart 1, (b), is that you need 10 hrs. flight instruction at an ATO. For the additional 15 hours of flying time cited in (b), up to 10hrs you can get from your Microlight experience, given you did 100hrs in M, hmm...
So speaking bare minimums, you could get an EASA PPL(A) with:
- 25 hrs in Microlights = NPPL(M)
- 3 hrs in Group A + M or A hrs. to get you to 32hrs. minimum = NPPL(SSEA) = EASA LAPL(A)
- 10 hrs Group A + (15 hrs Group A - 10% of whatever time you got in Microlights after license issue up to 10 hrs) = EASA PPL(A)
If you move pass the PPL stage forget all your Microlight hours as they won't count into anything apart from revalidating your M rating on your NPPL. However, keep in mind that a modern Microlight can really deliver with much less total cost of ownership than a group A. If you love flying I bet you will continue to fly one of these even on a CPL ;-)
My recommendation would be get your NPPL(M) to keep you aloft and see what the future brings.
Last edited by up-in-the-sky; 21st October 2013 at 00:09.
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 7
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From: Watford
Or do an NPPL SLMG 32 hours I think , then do differences training for NPPL SSEA no minimum hours requirement and no further exams to sit as you have already done them and the 1 hr instrument appreciation. Typically 3-5 hours training but could be done in a couple if your good.
Then NPPL to EASA LAPL if you want, your then in the EASA system.
I know someone who did it with on the minimum hours and minimum cost about £3400. Not bad for an NPPL SSEA. The joke is the charges levied by the CAA.
Then NPPL to EASA LAPL if you want, your then in the EASA system.
I know someone who did it with on the minimum hours and minimum cost about £3400. Not bad for an NPPL SSEA. The joke is the charges levied by the CAA.
