modes S transponder
Thread Starter
modes S transponder
Currently I have no transponder in my aircraft, a two seat 3 axis microlight. This has not restricted my flying all over to any real degree. Last year we went almost to Madrid, from the UK, without any trouble.
Apart from the obvious financial outlay, what are the cons to fitting a modes S/ADS-B transponder to your aircraft? I realise that every geek in the south of the country will be tracking your every move and the air traffic folk will know who you are if you bust anyone's zone. Any other risks?
Now, what are the benefits? I am having some difficulty justifying the outlay of cash. I understand the pros of the listening squawk around some zones and the easier access to the Channel Islands that a squawk affords but £1600 is still £1600 pounds, a lot of pocket money.
What are your thoughts? Have you a transponder in your aircraft?
Thanks,
Rans6andrew.
Apart from the obvious financial outlay, what are the cons to fitting a modes S/ADS-B transponder to your aircraft? I realise that every geek in the south of the country will be tracking your every move and the air traffic folk will know who you are if you bust anyone's zone. Any other risks?
Now, what are the benefits? I am having some difficulty justifying the outlay of cash. I understand the pros of the listening squawk around some zones and the easier access to the Channel Islands that a squawk affords but £1600 is still £1600 pounds, a lot of pocket money.
What are your thoughts? Have you a transponder in your aircraft?
Thanks,
Rans6andrew.
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Well from a pilot who flys an aircraft with TCAS fitted.
The machine will tell us if we are going to hit you in class G and tell us what to do so as to not hit you.
And there are quite a few GA solutions now which aid SEP pilots also avoid you.
I suppose its value will be directly linked to if you have had a scare or not.
The machine will tell us if we are going to hit you in class G and tell us what to do so as to not hit you.
And there are quite a few GA solutions now which aid SEP pilots also avoid you.
I suppose its value will be directly linked to if you have had a scare or not.
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I think all aircraft (except perhaps something exempt for historical reasons) should have at least mode c for the reasons mad_jock mentions. I see it as 2 cars driving down a dark country lane, and one driver choses to not fit headlamps to his car. Having headlights, like a transponder helps (though I accept not guarantees) others see you and preserve both lives.
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French rules say you must have a transponder to enter class D. This makes visiting France a pain with no transponder. This rule is not well enforced, but if you get ramp checked…
The Dutch will not allow you above 1200 ft without one and there are also TMZ’s.
TMZ’s in the UK are becoming more common and a mode s is the best solution.
I have a pcas unit which will see you coming so you might live longer.
Cons apart from the cost are the weight – the Trig TT21 is probably your best bet. You can fit the unit yourself (I have fitted several for friends with no issues.)
It is likely to become easy to do ADS-b out in a few weeks and I suspect that over the next few years this will become a big benefit.
Rod1
Trig TT31 mode S with ADS-b ready to go…
The Dutch will not allow you above 1200 ft without one and there are also TMZ’s.
TMZ’s in the UK are becoming more common and a mode s is the best solution.
I have a pcas unit which will see you coming so you might live longer.
Cons apart from the cost are the weight – the Trig TT21 is probably your best bet. You can fit the unit yourself (I have fitted several for friends with no issues.)
It is likely to become easy to do ADS-b out in a few weeks and I suspect that over the next few years this will become a big benefit.
Rod1
Trig TT31 mode S with ADS-b ready to go…
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If you carry a radio and seek a basic service then infringement is less likely - the controller will often "remind" you if it looks like you are getting close.
Personally, I have Mode S transponder and I will always (if I can, W. Scotland below 5,000 ft can be difficult) have someone on the radio providing a basic service or information
Personally, I have Mode S transponder and I will always (if I can, W. Scotland below 5,000 ft can be difficult) have someone on the radio providing a basic service or information
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I have a Mode S transponder in my flexwing while mainly flying around sunny Scotland
Certainly makes transiting controlled airspace simpler. There are also enough fast jets zooming around at low level that I want to give myself the best chance I can of not being hit by them (and others)
Certainly makes transiting controlled airspace simpler. There are also enough fast jets zooming around at low level that I want to give myself the best chance I can of not being hit by them (and others)
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Earlier this year there was mentions that a manufactures (with help from NATS)were developing a handheld Transponder.
And they were looking for the end of the year for approval....
The device would be about the size of a large GPS.
A price of appox £ 500 was mentioned.
Kinetics tried to develope the LAST device a few years back.
Basically the same a hand held transponder but the CAA would,nt approve it.
Now its up to EASA to approve...
http://www.chinaga.com/bank/4499.pdf
ACS Avionics
And they were looking for the end of the year for approval....
The device would be about the size of a large GPS.
A price of appox £ 500 was mentioned.
Kinetics tried to develope the LAST device a few years back.
Basically the same a hand held transponder but the CAA would,nt approve it.
Now its up to EASA to approve...
http://www.chinaga.com/bank/4499.pdf
ACS Avionics
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French rules say you must have a transponder to enter class D. This makes visiting France a pain with no transponder. This rule is not well enforced, but if you get ramp checked.
G-ABCD: Negative transponder.
LFAT: OK, follow the coast and call me abeam Boulogne
The next call elicits landing instructions, effectively granting authority to enter class D without a transponder. Would a ramp check not take account of that?
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If you carry a radio and seek a basic service then infringement is less likely - the controller will often "remind" you if it looks like you are getting close.
Personally, I have Mode S transponder and I will always (if I can, W. Scotland below 5,000 ft can be difficult) have someone on the radio providing a basic service or information
Personally, I have Mode S transponder and I will always (if I can, W. Scotland below 5,000 ft can be difficult) have someone on the radio providing a basic service or information
Traffic Service might get you some info, a basic service is useless unless you want information.
Thread Starter
thanks to everyone that responded. I had also heard a rumour about a cheapy miniature transponder ......... I think I will wait a while and watch this space.
One of the advantages of microlights is their acceptance in France without transponders. The French decided not to make them compulsory for their microlights some time ago.
Rans6.........
One of the advantages of microlights is their acceptance in France without transponders. The French decided not to make them compulsory for their microlights some time ago.
Rans6.........
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Johns,..
Wrong, I can only give you a basic service at Scottish Info but I also have data from your transponder to hopefully help you avoid infringing controlled airspace......so don't forget even with a Basic service you are being watched. 
Traffic Service might get you some info, a basic service is useless unless you want information.
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“even with a Basic service you are being watched.”
Is that guaranteed FisBang? I understood that the definition of a basic service was that you were not guaranteed to be identified, let alone watched? My local airport controls backed that up at a talk I attended some time ago (YOU WILL NOT be identified was the message) but would love to hear that this has changed.
Rod1
Is that guaranteed FisBang? I understood that the definition of a basic service was that you were not guaranteed to be identified, let alone watched? My local airport controls backed that up at a talk I attended some time ago (YOU WILL NOT be identified was the message) but would love to hear that this has changed.
Rod1
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However, the FISOs can - and in Scotland do - ask for information from you in such a way that it is obvious that you are about to bust controlled airspace.
So, yes, they cannot say: our radar shows you about to enter controlled airspace, please turn left.
They can say: your route takes you close to Glasgow's Class D, are you aware of line features that will help you identify the zone boundary (or some such words!)
I an sure the good folk will come up with some real world examples!
So, yes, they cannot say: our radar shows you about to enter controlled airspace, please turn left.
They can say: your route takes you close to Glasgow's Class D, are you aware of line features that will help you identify the zone boundary (or some such words!)
I an sure the good folk will come up with some real world examples!
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I realise that every geek in the south of the country will be tracking your every move and the air traffic folk will know who you are if you bust anyone's zone. Any other risks?
I suspect that you busting airspace is more of a danger than you getting caught.
If the trace from a NATS feed allows the CAA to identify you and issue words of advice, is that not safer for all of us than you hiding?
Thread Starter
Quote:
I realise that every geek in the south of the country will be tracking your every move and the air traffic folk will know who you are if you bust anyone's zone. Any other risks?
What exactly are the risks in this?
Well:
It is worse than having your address visible on your luggage labels. If you are traceable then when you are out flying it is easy to determine, via G-INFO, where your house is and probably unattended, your car is probably parked at your airfield and unattended etc.
A quick look at a friends registration, on gurgle, brought up the days he went flying last month from flightradar24. I guess, without much more effort I could find the tracks of where he went.
It is just too much big brother for my comfort.
Rans6....
I realise that every geek in the south of the country will be tracking your every move and the air traffic folk will know who you are if you bust anyone's zone. Any other risks?
What exactly are the risks in this?
Well:
It is worse than having your address visible on your luggage labels. If you are traceable then when you are out flying it is easy to determine, via G-INFO, where your house is and probably unattended, your car is probably parked at your airfield and unattended etc.
A quick look at a friends registration, on gurgle, brought up the days he went flying last month from flightradar24. I guess, without much more effort I could find the tracks of where he went.
It is just too much big brother for my comfort.
Rans6....
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I've just removed my tinfoil hat in order to make this post.
If someone was casing your house to decide whether or not to break in, they would do it by... parking nearby and watching...
To imagine that someone would use an ADS-B receiver, look up the details on G-INFO and build a pattern of movements in order to decide when to break into a house is quite fantastical!
If someone was casing your house to decide whether or not to break in, they would do it by... parking nearby and watching...
To imagine that someone would use an ADS-B receiver, look up the details on G-INFO and build a pattern of movements in order to decide when to break into a house is quite fantastical!
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“To imagine that someone would use an ADS-B receiver, look up the details on G-INFO and build a pattern of movements in order to decide when to break into a house is quite fantastical!”
I agree – it is quite farcical that anyone with an ADS-B receiver would see any of us, as it is, currently, practically illegal to emit ADS-B in the UK from a typical “GA” aircraft. But all pilots must know that, right!
Since the war there has not been one person killed due to infringements, but we have killed over 150 people due to collisions OCAS. If we can get ADS-B “allowed” then we can save some lives. Probably have very low impact on infringements as all ADS-B out comes from mode s transponders using ES so would be visible to ATC anyway.
Rod1
I agree – it is quite farcical that anyone with an ADS-B receiver would see any of us, as it is, currently, practically illegal to emit ADS-B in the UK from a typical “GA” aircraft. But all pilots must know that, right!
Since the war there has not been one person killed due to infringements, but we have killed over 150 people due to collisions OCAS. If we can get ADS-B “allowed” then we can save some lives. Probably have very low impact on infringements as all ADS-B out comes from mode s transponders using ES so would be visible to ATC anyway.
Rod1