Flying school aircraft develops fault - who pays?
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oxford
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Quite right. And in a more extreme version I wasn't charged when we abandoned the flight after rough running in the power checks even though that school charged per Hobbs hour so we did actually run up a bill (and I logged it as we taxied intending to take off...)
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Midlands
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For me a similar question over weather. On a few occasions during my PPL my instructor deemed the weather was appropriate for circuit flying but on getting to circuit height it clearly wasn't and we landed after one circuit. I was charged for the time as it was a logbook entry although I now look back and think I had a few hours I didn't benefit from in my logbook especially as I was over minimum hours on getting my licence.
My view was that was how it went, you trust the instructor but they are human and every experience is valuable in different ways? For me the question is did they know before setting off, if no then it's fair if yes.....
Interestingly a few months later post PPL I agreed to help reposition an aircraft for maintenance, two planes left the airfield and we had to turn back due to low cloud. I claimed 30minutes for my logbook but the club couldn't charge me, usually the agreement is 50:50 on costs on repositioning.
My view was that was how it went, you trust the instructor but they are human and every experience is valuable in different ways? For me the question is did they know before setting off, if no then it's fair if yes.....
Interestingly a few months later post PPL I agreed to help reposition an aircraft for maintenance, two planes left the airfield and we had to turn back due to low cloud. I claimed 30minutes for my logbook but the club couldn't charge me, usually the agreement is 50:50 on costs on repositioning.
Join Date: Jul 2012
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I don't really think you have a cause for complaint - you got logable time you did navigate to the point at which the fault manifested and presumably back to the airport.
If you were a solo as a ppl on a qualifying cross country (with a land at two other airports requirement) and got 75% though the route racking up two and a half hours of flight time and knowing you have to do it again it would be possible to see how this, especially if it was not a one time thing during training could be an issue for someone on a budget.
That said - these things happen - were you in a 30/40 year old plane with high overall hours and use (they are such a bargain aren't they?) or maybe an SR22 fresh out of the box at two /three times the price?
The point, implied by the original post but not expressly stated, is that the flight school had failed to provide what you paid for - in order for this to be the case you would have to have had an express promise from them that their plane would not "go tech" on you - if asked to make such a promise by someone renting my plane I would make it but I'd also double the rate, people get paid to take risk - you take the risk and you "get paid" by having an acceptable rental rate.
The fact is many things can interrupt plans from technical issues, weather, illness etc - they are part of flying - we all know there are part of the reality, this percentage of abortive flight must be factored into firstly, the decision to fly in the first place and secondly, to rent a particular airplane.
You have you PPL so while your planned trip could not be completed you actually suffered no losses other that a little frustration of a plan not executed - but you did fly, you did navigate but also got the real life experience of a semi-emergency (I would count that as probably more valuable than the abortive nav ex - of course if the airport you were going to had a 50% off coupon say on their burgers, well then you really have been had over!).
One rather silly question - why were you flying with a paid instructor - if I feel rusty on cross country I would fly with another PPL and share the cost - much cheaper all round?
If you were a solo as a ppl on a qualifying cross country (with a land at two other airports requirement) and got 75% though the route racking up two and a half hours of flight time and knowing you have to do it again it would be possible to see how this, especially if it was not a one time thing during training could be an issue for someone on a budget.
That said - these things happen - were you in a 30/40 year old plane with high overall hours and use (they are such a bargain aren't they?) or maybe an SR22 fresh out of the box at two /three times the price?
The point, implied by the original post but not expressly stated, is that the flight school had failed to provide what you paid for - in order for this to be the case you would have to have had an express promise from them that their plane would not "go tech" on you - if asked to make such a promise by someone renting my plane I would make it but I'd also double the rate, people get paid to take risk - you take the risk and you "get paid" by having an acceptable rental rate.
The fact is many things can interrupt plans from technical issues, weather, illness etc - they are part of flying - we all know there are part of the reality, this percentage of abortive flight must be factored into firstly, the decision to fly in the first place and secondly, to rent a particular airplane.
You have you PPL so while your planned trip could not be completed you actually suffered no losses other that a little frustration of a plan not executed - but you did fly, you did navigate but also got the real life experience of a semi-emergency (I would count that as probably more valuable than the abortive nav ex - of course if the airport you were going to had a 50% off coupon say on their burgers, well then you really have been had over!).
One rather silly question - why were you flying with a paid instructor - if I feel rusty on cross country I would fly with another PPL and share the cost - much cheaper all round?
Join Date: Oct 2006
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OK, I run a (microlight) flying school.
Reputation is important to me. I, personally, think it has a cash worth.
So when this sort of thing happens:
I would ask the student to pay based on what they got out of the lesson.
So scenario A:
Problem on power checks, time on the Hobbs, no pay.
Problem in the air: a percentage - maybe even 100% - of the cost depending on what the student got out of it. (as has been said, real experience on a real problem is huge benefit)
And yes, we have had an aircraft stuck on Bute - so a water crossing involved.
Our solution? Fly to another field to pick up a part and someone to fit it, fly another aircraft t Bute to pick up the student and then get it all back here. And offered the trial flying lesson student a rebook at no extra charge.
As it happened, they declined saying it was a really fascinating experience!
Reputation is important to me. I, personally, think it has a cash worth.
So when this sort of thing happens:
I would ask the student to pay based on what they got out of the lesson.
So scenario A:
Problem on power checks, time on the Hobbs, no pay.
Problem in the air: a percentage - maybe even 100% - of the cost depending on what the student got out of it. (as has been said, real experience on a real problem is huge benefit)
And yes, we have had an aircraft stuck on Bute - so a water crossing involved.
Our solution? Fly to another field to pick up a part and someone to fit it, fly another aircraft t Bute to pick up the student and then get it all back here. And offered the trial flying lesson student a rebook at no extra charge.
As it happened, they declined saying it was a really fascinating experience!
