IMC ground school notes. And some confusion...

[daxwax]

Evening all.
So I'm early into IMC training and have been looking at good sources of ground school notes. I've found the following links which look good on many levels but are both quite old and have left me somewhat confused re: flight in Class D with an IMC rating.
http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk/trainin...C%20Rating.pdf

http://www.takeflightaviation.co.uk/...urse_notes.pdf

The takeflight one confuses me as it states that:
"An IMC rating does not allow the pilot to fly in AIRWAYS at any time. Neither does the rating allow the pilot to fly in IMC conditions inside CONTROLLED AIRSPACE (Notified Airspace)."

The airways bit I get (although I will no doubt have a question about Eurocontrol airways in the future) but I thought a big reason to get the IMC rating is so that you can transit Class D in IMC / IFR?
E.g. I'm flying in cloud at 060 perfectly happy IMC. Do I have to drop down to treetops to get through the Class D VMC to stay legal?

It also confuses me as it suggests that the only time you can be in Class D with an IMC rating is on a Special VFR rating and thus need a min. 3kms vis so obviously not in cloud.

And finally it's got me questioning whether VMC on top is VFR or IFR. ie can I go through a Class D in gin clear at FL070 VFR or am I IFR?

I realise that iterations of this have been asked before on this and many other forums but I just want to make damn sure of what an IMC rating will and will not allow me to do once I've got it. Is there a definitive IMC ground school notes as the ones above seem to have confused me rather than clarified?

And I realise that once I get the rating I shouldn't go boring holes in cloud without ample supervised practice.

Thanks everyone.

[Level Attitude]

So I'm early into IMC training

Ask your school/Instructor

For reference look up
CAP393 (ANO 2012)
Schedule 7
Part-A PPL
(NB if you hold an EASA Licence not all listed limitations apply)
and
Part-B Subsection 2 IMC rating

The training notes you have posted are wrong/out of date

VMC on top is VFR or IFR

If it is VMC (make sure you now the criteria) then it is your choice
as to whether you wish to fly VFR or IFR.
If VMC criteria do not exist then it is, by definition, IMC and IFR
is mandatory.

[custardpsc]

The notes do look old. The point that I think you are asking about is controlled airspace, the pointer is the bit about it being notified, this probably refers to 'notified for the purposes of schedule 8' which is a restriction on imc flight in some control zones. In the good old days before lettered airspace control zones had, if memory serves, an asterix by their designation if they were notified. These were what became class d probably but I cant remember to be honest. Some googling of schedule 8 weather provisions imc will give you the whole picture Im sure.

Hope this answers the point if not the detail of your question

[slw29]

I've recently taken my IMC written exam. Everything that you need for it is in the instrument flying / radio nav book from the Trevor Thom series.
You can look up the priviliges of the IR(R)/IMC in Cap804. The ANO and AIP contain anything else

[Johnm]

From the Air navigation Order:

Subject to paragraph (2), within the United Kingdom an instrument meteorological
conditions rating (aeroplanes) entitles the holder of a United Kingdom Private Pilot’s
Licence (Aeroplanes) to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane without being subject
to the restrictions contained in paragraph (2)(c) or (f) of the privileges of the United
Kingdom Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes).
(2) The rating does not entitle the holder of the licence to fly:
(a) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than three km;
or
(b) when the aeroplane is taking off or landing at any place if the flight visibility below
cloud is less than 1800 metres.


2 c says unless the licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument
meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), you may not fly as pilot in command of such an
aeroplane:
(i) on a flight outside controlled airspace if the flight visibility is less than
three km;
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km
except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of
this sub-paragraph; or
(iii) out of sight of the surface;

2f says unless the licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument
meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command or co-pilot
of such an aeroplane flying in Class D or E airspace in circumstances which
require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules

To sum up:

You can fly out of sight of the surface (you can anyway on an EASA licence) You can fly under special VFR in Class A airspace if the vis is greater than 3 km (10 km for vanilla PPL)
You can fly under IFR in Class D and below airspace including take off as long as the vis is greater than 1800 metres and landing using Instrument approach procedures.

You can't fly IFR in Class C and above which means you can't fly airways in most cases.

All of the above is exactly the same as a IR(R) on an EASA licence.

[Whopity]

Neither does the rating allow the pilot to fly in IMC conditions inside CONTROLLED AIRSPACE (Notified Airspace)."

This goes back to the days when certain airfields were notified for the purposes of Schedule 8; this was changed as long ago as 1996!

[daxwax]

Thanks guys - much clearer now.

So to continue my train of thought......
With an IMC rating, if you asked for a VFR transit through a class D and got a refusal could you re-ask for an IFR clearance? Or would this be seen as taking the p@@@?
Or to put it another way, when asking for a Class D transit could you offer up VFR or IFR at the controllers discretion as a means of increasing your chances of getting an approval?

Thanks!

[Whopity]

Why would it increase your chances? If you are refused its either because they are too busy to fit you in, or your RT was such that they don't want you in their airspace. Unless you are on an IFR route with a flight plan there will be no difference.

[Johnm]

If you need an IFR transit because you are in IMC and flying IFR you must ask for it. Otherwise just ask for zone transit and they'll ask if VFR or IFR, VFR is easier for them because the separation criteria are much lower and leave you with see and avoid responsibility for other VFR and IFR traffic.

Class D rules are

•IFR and VFR flights are permitted


•All flights are provided with air traffic control service


•IFR flights are separated from other IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of VFR flights


•VFR flights receive traffic information in respect of all other flights.

[thing]

Rare that you get refused a 'D' transit anyway. Be punchy on the radio, sound like you know what you're doing and you'll be fine most of the time. Having said that I've yet to get a transit of Leeds/Bradford. Weird.

[tmmorris]

One thing to watch in practice is that if you call up for transit and sound as if you are IFR (e.g. quote your level as a FL, give your ETA at the next beacon etc.) some controllers will assume you want an IFR clearance. If you are VMC and aren't bothered (perhaps you are VFR but using radio nav and flying a FL because you want to) it's worth saying 'request zone transit VFR'. As stated they'll probably want you to go VFR as it's easier for separation.

[daxwax]

Fantastic. Thanks everyone.
Apologies if this isn't the last of my daft questions.... I do find that the responses on pprune are usually in plain English whereas the official docs often aren't!
Thanks again.

[Johnm]

There ain't no daft questions, but beware stupid answers