PPL EASA SEP Renewal

[PompeyPaul]

Hello,

I have almost completed the 11 hours flying + 1 hour with instructor flying so I can renew my rating. With my EASA license do I simply get an instructor / examiner to sign my EASA license?

The pooh brown was a signature only, but I'm unsure with the process with EASA.

[Level Attitude]

I have almost completed the 11 hours flying + 1 hour with instructor flying so
I can renew my rating

Rating Issue = Never held a Rating, want first one ever.
Rating Renewal = Have an expired rating and want to start its privileges anew.
Rating Revalidation = Have a valid rating and want to extend current validity
for another period.

I am assuming you are Revalidating

The pooh brown was a signature only

No it wasn't, but you've probably forgotten.

For EASA all Issues, Revalidations and Renewals require an Application to the CAA.
However not all of them require the administrative action to be taken by the CAA.

In your case you need to fill out SRG1157 (though there are other forms
which can be used) and take it, along with your Log Book, Licence,
Ratings Page and Medical to a Flight Examiner.

If you don't have a form the Examiner should aslo have them.

The Examiner will check you meet the Revalidation requirements, complete
their section on SRG1157 and carry out the administrative action
by completing and signing your Ratings page.
Your Rating is now Revalidated.

However, the Form still needs to be sent to the CAA at Gatwick for their records,
but this is the Examiners responsibility - though they may give it back to you
and ask you to post it on.

A Flight Examiner is empowered to carry out administrative action on behalf
of the CAA - An Instructor is not.

As the CAA is not carrying out the administrative action there is no
set fee. The Examiner may do it for free, or may charge you as much
as they like (ask them)

Whether an Examiner should charge for this service and, if so, how much
has been the subject of a separate thread.

[S-Works]

In your case you need to fill out SRG1157 (though there are other forms
which can be used) and take it, along with your Log Book, Licence,
Ratings Page and Medical to a Flight Examiner.

Actually its an SRG1119E if revalidating by experience.......

[Ryan5252]

Rating Issue = Never held a Rating, want first one ever.
Rating Renewal = Have an expired rating and want to start its privileges anew.
Rating Revalidation = Have a valid rating and want to extend current validity
for another period.

Nice one!!

[Level Attitude]

Actually its an SRG1119E if revalidating by experience.......

Doesn't have to be, could equally be SRG1157.

SRG1157 = Can be used for Revalidation/Renewal of many Ratings, including
SEP revalidation by experience.

SRG1119E = Can only be used for SEP Revalidation by experience.

I have heard (rumour) that the CAA are planning to re-jig SRG1157
slightly and then only use that. The forest of other forms being
discontinued.

[ozbeck]

I am in exactly the same position as PompeyPaul and I had prepared a form SRG1119E which I have downloaded from the CAA website, so when I saw the reference to form SRG1157 I was a little confused.

1119E appears to deal only with revalidation by experience whereas 1157 deals with revaidation by experience, issue of a rating following a skill test and revalidation following a proficiency check. Both forms are labelled as current on the website

So I have just spoken with the CAA licencing department who stated that 'they usually deal with the 1119E' when the revalidation is by experience. This form is also a lot simpler because it only deals with one scenario.

Personally, I will present the 1119E to the examiner but have a spare 1157 in my bag in case that is the one he normally uses and knows is OK.

Also, don't forget that 12 take offs and landings are required within the 12 months, as well as the hours and 1 hour with and instructor (sorry if you know that and just didn't put in in your post).


I noted that a pre-recorded message at the start of the phone call told me that 'verbal abuse to a member of CAA staff would not be tolerated', and I wonder why they feel that is necessary? I was feeling quite relaxed until I heard it, but when thought I must be being primed for a frustrating experience I got quite angry and had to kick the cat, (only joking!)

[S-Works]

The SRG1157 is a skill test form not for revalidation by experience. If we are testing a candidate and they need another rating signed off by experience then we can use the form to do it at the same time. An example would be where I was renewing the MEP for a candidate and they want the SEP revalidating by experience then I can incorporate into a single form. However the SRG1157 is not to be used where revalidating by experience solely according to the CAA.

[Level Attitude]

The SRG1157 is a skill test form

bose, I understand your point. It does say "Examiner Report" on the
top of the form. But my understanding was that 1157 was issued due
to the confusion caused by the large number of other possible forms.
Do you still use 1119B and 1119C forms for Class Ratings?

However the SRG1157 is not to be used where revalidating by experience solely
according to the CAA

You may be correct, but where did you get the "according to the CAA"
from? I have seen no published guidance on what forms to use for what
purpose and rely on reading what it says on the top of each form and
what, from experience, the CAA have accepted.

[S-Works]

You may be correct, but where did you get the "according to the CAA"
from?

David Conduit, licensing and standards manager, UK CAA via enquiries at [email protected]

SRG1157 to be used for skill tests.
SRG1119E to be used for revalidation by experience

A, B and C to be used in conjunction with an SRG1157 for issue, renewal or revalidation of a rating by test. Examiner sends the SRG1157 the candidate send the A, B or C as required.

SRG1119D also to be sent where the rating has expired and is renewed.

The CAA have accepted all sorts during the transition because its been such a buggersmuddle. But the above is the correct procedure according to the horses mouth....

[avonflyer]

What I cannot understand is why we now need a flight examiner rather than a ground examiner to do,what is after all, an admin task. In fact a head of a FTO could do it just as well (after all the head of a FTO has to sign the form when you convert your licence from jaa to easa). It all seems rather disjointed to me. But, I don't suppose there is a route to make the caa see sense.

[S-Works]

Its another one of those misaligned bits of rule making that crept in rather than being intentional I think. I don't that EASA even grasped the concept that people may be Ground Examiners without being flight examiners as well!!

Generally speaking the Head of Training will be a Flight Examiner as the have to demonstrate a certian level of experience in order to be accepted by EASA to fill the role. Invariably in gaining that experience we became flight Examiners on the road!!

[jezbowman]

Just a final spanner in the works. From the CAA website where you download the form it says:

NOTE: The purpose of this Form is to request the revalidation of a rating by the CAA in any circumstance where the revalidation page of the licence cannot be signed by an examiner. If the rating is present in Section XII of the licence and the examiner has signed the revalidation page in the licence, this Form 1119B is not required.

This is taken from here.

When I re-validated my SEP in June, the examiner photocopied the SEP page after signing it up and this was sent to the CAA as part of my application for an EASA license. No SRG1119x form was sent to the CAA and I now have an EASA license with my new SEP expiry printed on it.

I appreciate that the CAA have been allowing some exceptions to keep the mass of applications in re-work to a minimum but if the requirement is that a SRG1119x form is required to be sent to the CAA in this case then they need to remove this ambiguity from their webpage.

On the other-hand, if the statement is true and you don't need to send the form in as long as the rating already exists on your license and the examiner can sign it, then that should be on the form and not just on the download link.

[Level Attitude]

Just a final spanner in the works

One more:
On SRG1157 it says:

Expiry of new Type/Class Rating:.......................(dd/mm/yyyy)
I have / I have not endorsed the Certificate of Revalidation in the applicant's licence.
(If not signed also complete SRG 1119).

The implication being that an 1119 Form only needs to be completed if
the Examiner does not sign the candidate's ratings page.

Why would the CAA want to receive two forms containing the same information?

[S-Works]

Because one is the applicants form and the other is the examiners record. Stupid system but there you go.

[Ryan5252]

However, the Form still needs to be sent to the CAA at Gatwick for their records,
but this is the Examiners responsibility

Has it ever been known for an applicant to revalidate by experience with the examiner completing log book signing, rating page signing and filling in required CAA form(s) only to fail at the last hurdle and not send the paperwork to the CAA? What are the implications for the pilot exercising his/her privileges for the next 24 months? Surely he would be unaware?

[S-Works]

Yep, loads if times. It has no effect at all on the validity of the rating.

[Level Attitude]

What are the implications for the pilot exercising his/her privileges for
the next 24 months?

There is no problem with the pilot exercising their privileges as they possess
a valid Rating.

As the CAA would not be aware of the pilot possessing a valid Rating
problems might arise if any hours flown under the Rating's privileges
are to be used for Licensing purposes. eg Flying the PIC hours required
for CPL or MEP issue; or issuing a replacement Licence (with all Ratings) if
the original has been lost.

[BackPacker]

Here's something that I found out today, and which might be helpful in this context.

If you do anything that causes your licence to be re-issued as an EASA licence (such as applying for an IMC/IR(R) rating) the CAA wants to have a copy of your licence/rating revalidation page. That copy needs to be certified by an examiner - although in the letter the CAA did not specify whether that examiner can be any EASA FE, or has to be a UK EASA FE, or actually has to be the FE that signed the revalidation page.

The exact wording in the rejection letter I got is as follows:

In addition to the above [which deals with the SRG1104 form] we require a copy of your page (to show your current ratings) which must be certified as a true copy by your examiner.

So you can probably save yourself some grief in the future by making a copy of the validation page straight after the FE has signed it, and then ask the FE to certify the copy.

[PompeyPaul]

Great

Thanks for all of the info. I'll have a go at navigating the EASA mine field again soon.

Had a slight panic about the 12 take off & landings too but the log book shows I did an hour of circuits so well in for everything.

[zondaracer]

Quick question about SEP revalidation by experience...

Must the 1 hour with an instructor be completed at an ATO? If an individual owns his own airplane, can he use any qualified instructor in his own airplane or must he go to an ATO and hire one of their own planes and instructors for the purpose of the 1 hour of instruction towards revalidation by experience?

Thanks in advance.