laa permit aircraft for tug use
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: wales uk
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so i am now thinking after all this good advice.
1. medical
2. lapl using the motor glider he is flying at the moment (£99 hr instructed)
3. flight school for 10hrs in an easa aircraft to gain ppl.
4. get hold of a cheap single seat aircraft or buy a share in one for hour building.
can he use a non easa aircraft for hour building?
are all laa permit aircraft non easa?
how do aircraft shares work?
thanks again.
1. medical
2. lapl using the motor glider he is flying at the moment (£99 hr instructed)
3. flight school for 10hrs in an easa aircraft to gain ppl.
4. get hold of a cheap single seat aircraft or buy a share in one for hour building.
can he use a non easa aircraft for hour building?
are all laa permit aircraft non easa?
how do aircraft shares work?
thanks again.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: South Norfolk, England
Age: 58
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Hi again,
Never count hours required as hours needed. If 10 hours are required he may very well do it in that time as he's young and probably learns fast, but it's no guarantee. Hours stated are minimums and often more are needed to reach the required standard.
Yes you can use LAA aircraft for hour building even though they are Annexe 2 not EASA.
Shares work easily enough. An aircraft is owned equally by say four people. When one owner sells their share, the new owner (assuming approved by the other owners) pays the asking price then pays a quarter of the fixed costs such as insurance and hangarage. The group will have worked out an hourly rate (either wet or dry of fuel) and that is paid for hours flown. Most groups have rules requiring minimum hours though, and possibly tailwheel differences (as most LAA shares are in taildraggers) ... Motorgliders are taildraggers - so no problem for him (his lack of hours might be a problem). If buying outright, I would make sure you find a good local LAA inspector to find a good one and go for a single seater. You can pick one up under £5K and the costs/risk will be less than a two seater.
SS
Never count hours required as hours needed. If 10 hours are required he may very well do it in that time as he's young and probably learns fast, but it's no guarantee. Hours stated are minimums and often more are needed to reach the required standard.
Yes you can use LAA aircraft for hour building even though they are Annexe 2 not EASA.
Shares work easily enough. An aircraft is owned equally by say four people. When one owner sells their share, the new owner (assuming approved by the other owners) pays the asking price then pays a quarter of the fixed costs such as insurance and hangarage. The group will have worked out an hourly rate (either wet or dry of fuel) and that is paid for hours flown. Most groups have rules requiring minimum hours though, and possibly tailwheel differences (as most LAA shares are in taildraggers) ... Motorgliders are taildraggers - so no problem for him (his lack of hours might be a problem). If buying outright, I would make sure you find a good local LAA inspector to find a good one and go for a single seater. You can pick one up under £5K and the costs/risk will be less than a two seater.
SS
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I have here a print out of LAA document TL 2:09.
"Learning to fly in a LAA aircraft is quite legal, but the following conditions apply.
1) Training towards EASA & non EASA licences or ratings is permissible, & flight time conducted in LAA aircraft counts rowards those required under EASA towards licence or rating issue, renewal, or revalidation.
Initial Licence or Rating
2) An owner may recieve remunerated (or un-remunerated) flight training towards an initial licence or rating in his own LAA aircraft provided he is a "sole" owner & not part of a group ownership."
etc, etc.
Try getting in touch with LAA. By the way, yes second hand LAA a/c are perfectly safe. Mine was built 1959 & has just received it's permit yet again. Similar a/c can be had for ~£12k.
"Learning to fly in a LAA aircraft is quite legal, but the following conditions apply.
1) Training towards EASA & non EASA licences or ratings is permissible, & flight time conducted in LAA aircraft counts rowards those required under EASA towards licence or rating issue, renewal, or revalidation.
Initial Licence or Rating
2) An owner may recieve remunerated (or un-remunerated) flight training towards an initial licence or rating in his own LAA aircraft provided he is a "sole" owner & not part of a group ownership."
etc, etc.
Try getting in touch with LAA. By the way, yes second hand LAA a/c are perfectly safe. Mine was built 1959 & has just received it's permit yet again. Similar a/c can be had for ~£12k.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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It is possible to get your licence on an LAA machine and save a lot of cash but it is complex if you are new to GA.
You need a suitable aircraft, a Jodel 112 could work in this case at a cost around £10,000. This is a two seat aircraft and was the standard French flying school trainer in the 60’s/70’s/80’s. To do this you need a good inspector and you need to learn to do your own maintenance under his supervision.
You need an instructor who will teach on the aircraft
You need a place to base it which works for the instructor.
Put that together and you can get a licence and hour build for very little cash. At the end of the exercise, provided you have looked after the aircraft you will get about the same money back as you paid. Risk is something goes bang and costs you £15k to fix, but if you know what you are doing / have a good inspector this is unlikely.
There was a study done comparing the safety record of LAA aircraft v C of A types over 20 years that showed no difference in safety. There are bad LAA aircraft and bad C of A ones; all comes back to a really good inspector. I have owned a verity of LAA machines ranging from a 1946 C120 to a state of the art MCR01 which I built from a kit 8 years ago and have just toured France in for a week.
Rod1
You need a suitable aircraft, a Jodel 112 could work in this case at a cost around £10,000. This is a two seat aircraft and was the standard French flying school trainer in the 60’s/70’s/80’s. To do this you need a good inspector and you need to learn to do your own maintenance under his supervision.
You need an instructor who will teach on the aircraft
You need a place to base it which works for the instructor.
Put that together and you can get a licence and hour build for very little cash. At the end of the exercise, provided you have looked after the aircraft you will get about the same money back as you paid. Risk is something goes bang and costs you £15k to fix, but if you know what you are doing / have a good inspector this is unlikely.
There was a study done comparing the safety record of LAA aircraft v C of A types over 20 years that showed no difference in safety. There are bad LAA aircraft and bad C of A ones; all comes back to a really good inspector. I have owned a verity of LAA machines ranging from a 1946 C120 to a state of the art MCR01 which I built from a kit 8 years ago and have just toured France in for a week.
Rod1
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London down town
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If the final goal is to fly for the airlines then the route you are choosing may not be the best. Airlines tend to tag students during approved courses and also part sponsor as they get a reliable product at the end There is also the multi crew only licence. waiting and going on a course at OAT or FTE may be expensive but will probably improve employment prospects. Flying Tugs is not to be taken lightly, Insurance is expensive and not for the low hour pilots. Silver C gliding is a good experience to have to be able to know what the glider pilot wants out of the tow he is paying for.
Getting a class one medical is essential book the initial at LGW and get it done. without it you are going no where in the airlines.
My advice let him go gliding its cheap will keep him busy (gliding is cheap in cost but expensive in time).It teaches good solid flying skills and airmanship and It is a great way to network. Go for a PPL if you wish but if you go down the route of an approved course then you will not get very much if any credit for having it.
This is all from personal experience from a 13yr old glider pilot to my current position of a trainer with one of the major airlines.
Feel free to PM
Getting a class one medical is essential book the initial at LGW and get it done. without it you are going no where in the airlines.
My advice let him go gliding its cheap will keep him busy (gliding is cheap in cost but expensive in time).It teaches good solid flying skills and airmanship and It is a great way to network. Go for a PPL if you wish but if you go down the route of an approved course then you will not get very much if any credit for having it.
This is all from personal experience from a 13yr old glider pilot to my current position of a trainer with one of the major airlines.
Feel free to PM
