Experience Day Website
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Experience Day Website
Hi Guys,
I've been around these forums for awhile now looking for a way to fund a PPL & the cost of flying after. I am employed but my salary isn't enough to support flying as a hobby.
I was thinking about setting up an experience day website where I could list experiences like 30 mins trial flight, stunt experience flight, helicopter experience flight etc, similar to Virgin Experience days and Red Letter Days, but my focus would be on aircraft and fast cars.
I know the big boys are dominating the market but that is the same with all markets. I reckon I could target my area of the UK first, before providing experiences nationwide.
So I will need to contact the local flying schools to see if they would be willing to strike a deal. Why should they? Because for them I can put customers into their aircraft and they can then flog them food in the cafe or even better get them interested in flying lessons.
I would sell the experience on my website for a price of, lets say, £59 for a 30 minute flight. I would then take a %age cut and the rest would go to the airfield to provide the experience.
Once purchased, the customer would book their experience date with the airfield and I would pay the airfield the required money.
So why am I here? I need to find out what kind of figures I need to look at. Obviously I don't want to be suggesting %ages of 5% and being accepted when I could in fact get 20%. I also don't want to be suggesting 35% and being laughed out of the door. I'm looking for a percentage that still allows the airfield to make some profit, but also allows me to take a profit.
Is anyone here closely involved in the running of an airfield and could possibly give me a rough idea of the cost of providing an experience flight? I don't mind which aircraft you talk about, just so long as you let me know. I know the price of instruction in a cessna hovers around £150ph but I don't know how much of this is profit and how much is cost.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
I've been around these forums for awhile now looking for a way to fund a PPL & the cost of flying after. I am employed but my salary isn't enough to support flying as a hobby.
I was thinking about setting up an experience day website where I could list experiences like 30 mins trial flight, stunt experience flight, helicopter experience flight etc, similar to Virgin Experience days and Red Letter Days, but my focus would be on aircraft and fast cars.
I know the big boys are dominating the market but that is the same with all markets. I reckon I could target my area of the UK first, before providing experiences nationwide.
So I will need to contact the local flying schools to see if they would be willing to strike a deal. Why should they? Because for them I can put customers into their aircraft and they can then flog them food in the cafe or even better get them interested in flying lessons.
I would sell the experience on my website for a price of, lets say, £59 for a 30 minute flight. I would then take a %age cut and the rest would go to the airfield to provide the experience.
Once purchased, the customer would book their experience date with the airfield and I would pay the airfield the required money.
So why am I here? I need to find out what kind of figures I need to look at. Obviously I don't want to be suggesting %ages of 5% and being accepted when I could in fact get 20%. I also don't want to be suggesting 35% and being laughed out of the door. I'm looking for a percentage that still allows the airfield to make some profit, but also allows me to take a profit.
Is anyone here closely involved in the running of an airfield and could possibly give me a rough idea of the cost of providing an experience flight? I don't mind which aircraft you talk about, just so long as you let me know. I know the price of instruction in a cessna hovers around £150ph but I don't know how much of this is profit and how much is cost.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
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£59 for a 30 minute flight
the price of instruction in a cessna hovers around £150ph
Last edited by foxmoth; 7th Jul 2013 at 18:01.
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That's fine, but pluck sensible figures - you cannot undercut your suppliers, so if it is £150ph you need to charge at least £75 for a 30 min t/l - otherwise you will get people twigging on and buying 90 trips off you to do their PPL, that will REALLY p off your suppliers! As said, I wish you luck, but endless you have something special on the marketing front I suspect you will struggle to make this work in competition with the big guys!
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The big guys only work because they offer a range of products, not only aircraft and fast cars, but horse riding, quad biking, hot air balloons anything you can imagine.
So when people are thinking "what shall we get dad for his 50th, he's got everything he needs" then they look there for inspiration.
A site featuring only aircraft and fast cars would not work, as people who know that they want aircraft or fast cars will go directly to the people who supply them, who will be able to do so cheaper as they will not have to cut you into their profit.
So when people are thinking "what shall we get dad for his 50th, he's got everything he needs" then they look there for inspiration.
A site featuring only aircraft and fast cars would not work, as people who know that they want aircraft or fast cars will go directly to the people who supply them, who will be able to do so cheaper as they will not have to cut you into their profit.
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Don't listen to the naysayers. Red letter days was started by a guy needing to subsidise the ownership of his Tiger Moth.
Flying schools are collapsing regularly and will talk to anyone who may be able to drive more business their way.
Go for it!
Flying schools are collapsing regularly and will talk to anyone who may be able to drive more business their way.
Go for it!
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Hi,
Well, I run a flying school....
But margins? Well, that is commercially sensitive information.
What I can tell you is.......
Gift vouchers are a great way to get cash up front, fabulous for cash flow. Business is as much about cash flow as profit.
A good number of gift vouchers are unredeemed, so seem like money for nothing. However, you still have costs! ie phone, printing, marketing, postage etc. Even if you do online only, so no postage, you have IT costs!
As a flying school, trial lessons can be a pain. Having to explain how to find the airfield several hundred times a year! My favourite? "Oh, I see on the suppliers website there is a Strathaven Airport and a Strathaven Airfield, which one are you on!" All thanks to Google maps!
With students, it is "see you next week at 2pm".
So I think, as a flying school, gift vouchers should be priced at almost double the hourly student rate to take into account credit card fees, postage, telephone time for sale, people time for printing out vouchers, paperwork, the odd refunds (under DSR), bookings, directions etc, etc etc.
With the credit crunch, there has been a distinct increase in the numbers phoning to ask could they get their money back nine months after buying the voucher. And I think we may have to put a health warning on ours since so many of our customers seem to have got life-threatening illnesses which prevented them from flying in the past nine months!
Give them a refund/don't give them a refund? It all costs time.
So these are the costs/hassles you will face.
Where people make money is cross-selling. Once you know dad's birthday, you can target annual emails offering similar experiences.
The big people will know exactly how many people who have a flying lesson then go on a spa day/ferrari ride/horse treking. So they know what to give the £5 birthday discount on!
You won't, and you won't be offering those experiences!
Finally, if an agency approaches me, I want to know two things:
First, what happens to my money: ideally paid once they book in, rather than after they fly.
Second: is it going to be worth my while. If you are only going to sell two or three vouchers a year, I can't be ar*sed with new paperwork. So you'll need to be having a good marketing spend.
There you are, some free info from the horse's mouth.
It's worth what you paid for it!
Well, I run a flying school....
But margins? Well, that is commercially sensitive information.
What I can tell you is.......
Gift vouchers are a great way to get cash up front, fabulous for cash flow. Business is as much about cash flow as profit.
A good number of gift vouchers are unredeemed, so seem like money for nothing. However, you still have costs! ie phone, printing, marketing, postage etc. Even if you do online only, so no postage, you have IT costs!
As a flying school, trial lessons can be a pain. Having to explain how to find the airfield several hundred times a year! My favourite? "Oh, I see on the suppliers website there is a Strathaven Airport and a Strathaven Airfield, which one are you on!" All thanks to Google maps!
With students, it is "see you next week at 2pm".
So I think, as a flying school, gift vouchers should be priced at almost double the hourly student rate to take into account credit card fees, postage, telephone time for sale, people time for printing out vouchers, paperwork, the odd refunds (under DSR), bookings, directions etc, etc etc.
With the credit crunch, there has been a distinct increase in the numbers phoning to ask could they get their money back nine months after buying the voucher. And I think we may have to put a health warning on ours since so many of our customers seem to have got life-threatening illnesses which prevented them from flying in the past nine months!
Give them a refund/don't give them a refund? It all costs time.
So these are the costs/hassles you will face.
Where people make money is cross-selling. Once you know dad's birthday, you can target annual emails offering similar experiences.
The big people will know exactly how many people who have a flying lesson then go on a spa day/ferrari ride/horse treking. So they know what to give the £5 birthday discount on!
You won't, and you won't be offering those experiences!
Finally, if an agency approaches me, I want to know two things:
First, what happens to my money: ideally paid once they book in, rather than after they fly.
Second: is it going to be worth my while. If you are only going to sell two or three vouchers a year, I can't be ar*sed with new paperwork. So you'll need to be having a good marketing spend.
There you are, some free info from the horse's mouth.
It's worth what you paid for it!
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MrMeat you'll be up against Amazon Local as well these days and like with everything else they do, Amazon's deals are probably going to be unbeatable. As the name suggests they cover experience days and services in your local area, which is pretty much what you are describing but you want to limit yourself to just flying and cars? Good luck with that.
There you are, some free info from the horse's mouth.
It's worth what you paid for it!
It's worth what you paid for it!
Admittedly it was quite a long while ago but I was involved in dealing with this as a committee member of a gliding club. Also, as a basic instructor, I flew quite a few of the punters.....
From the club's point of view it was a worthwhile source of income. However, the big difference was we were all volunteers so there were no labour costs.
As a business, it is very different.
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Not saying do or don't, just that cars are already being done.
The cars side of what you're proposing is already being done – heavily. Check the back of car magazines and you’ll see a wide range from classics to super cars offering track experiences, organised weekend events, and every combination you can think of.
If you’re going to link cars and planes, you’re assuming that an interest in one equals in interest in the other. It does for some, but not all. Technically hot air balloons are more linked to aircraft as they fly. It narrows you market further but you could look at “super car hire to and from flying”, but you’ve still got all the previously mentioned woes with flying. I can't help but think that if you've got a wider option of experiences, you could run the flying as a "loss leader" if the other experiences are profitable enough - I'm sure this was a challenge on The Apprentice...
To make your plan work, find out what your market actually wants, and what is already being offered. Get yourself a unique selling point, and don’t limit you options.
If you’re going to link cars and planes, you’re assuming that an interest in one equals in interest in the other. It does for some, but not all. Technically hot air balloons are more linked to aircraft as they fly. It narrows you market further but you could look at “super car hire to and from flying”, but you’ve still got all the previously mentioned woes with flying. I can't help but think that if you've got a wider option of experiences, you could run the flying as a "loss leader" if the other experiences are profitable enough - I'm sure this was a challenge on The Apprentice...
To make your plan work, find out what your market actually wants, and what is already being offered. Get yourself a unique selling point, and don’t limit you options.
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Why not consider a 'trial flight' website to be used in conjunction with training airfields. You could find them customers and offer all the preamble (including how to get there) but done as a service to the flying clubs rather than a 'thrill' offer.
I am sure that many clubs would welcome the marketing that you could offer getting them potential new trainees or even just trial flights.
How many come on here asking where their local airfield is and where they can get this and that?
Almost a 'dating' agency fitting a person with a desire to taste flying with a suitable club prepared to do it.
You could even open it up to pilots who are looking for an airfield to fly from when on holidays.
This is a lot more up market and specialised and, in my opinion, would be more attractive to the punters. When people want a trial flight they would prefer to deal with some sort of professional rather than just a "thrill provider" which all sounds a bit laddish especially if you combine it with cars.
I am sure that many clubs would welcome the marketing that you could offer getting them potential new trainees or even just trial flights.
How many come on here asking where their local airfield is and where they can get this and that?
Almost a 'dating' agency fitting a person with a desire to taste flying with a suitable club prepared to do it.
You could even open it up to pilots who are looking for an airfield to fly from when on holidays.
This is a lot more up market and specialised and, in my opinion, would be more attractive to the punters. When people want a trial flight they would prefer to deal with some sort of professional rather than just a "thrill provider" which all sounds a bit laddish especially if you combine it with cars.
Don't listen to the naysayers
Fleetflyer put it rather well I thought "Don't listen to the naysayer"
I run an aviation experience website based in Ireland and this pays for quite a lot of my flying. Although I am doing this for the love of aviation and not as a profit making company it really has broadened my aviation life.
Last weekend a group of us went gliding for a day over the mountains and lakes.
This weekend we have helicopter tours on of Dublin city/ Zoo followed by 2 course lunch.
And soon we will be doing air-experience flights with a local AOC holder.
With each of these operators (all based around my local field ) I did a deal whereby for each paying customer they would pay me a percentage and also let me fly on said trip for free !
Then start your aviation group and hunt out Air-Experience enthusiasts through hobby websites etc, these are the paying customers who will fund your flying (but not 100% of your PPL I would imagine)
All the software you need to run these websites is available on line and fell free to pm me for more info.
Anything is possible I would say ....
Fionn
I run an aviation experience website based in Ireland and this pays for quite a lot of my flying. Although I am doing this for the love of aviation and not as a profit making company it really has broadened my aviation life.
Last weekend a group of us went gliding for a day over the mountains and lakes.
This weekend we have helicopter tours on of Dublin city/ Zoo followed by 2 course lunch.
And soon we will be doing air-experience flights with a local AOC holder.
With each of these operators (all based around my local field ) I did a deal whereby for each paying customer they would pay me a percentage and also let me fly on said trip for free !
Then start your aviation group and hunt out Air-Experience enthusiasts through hobby websites etc, these are the paying customers who will fund your flying (but not 100% of your PPL I would imagine)
All the software you need to run these websites is available on line and fell free to pm me for more info.
Anything is possible I would say ....
Fionn
