How to use a Logbook for dummies
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How to use a Logbook for dummies
Hi guys, just wondering exactly how do you log hours for a PPL. I don't have a logbook yet so maybe some recommendations would be helpful? When logging hours does your instructor have to sign each entry? Say I flew for 30 mins could I log a few mins at either end as during pre-flight and tie down you are still learning? Also could I log hours I flew a few months ago or do they have to be logged straight after the flight?
Sorry, I know this is really basic, I just don't want to end up having more or less time logged than I actually have.
Thanks for all replies.
Sorry, I know this is really basic, I just don't want to end up having more or less time logged than I actually have.
Thanks for all replies.
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When you actually start to do your PPL your instructor will show you what's involved and how to complete the entries.
Not much point in worrying about it until you need to
Not much point in worrying about it until you need to
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If I had my time again, I would start an electronic logbook from day one.
MCC pilot log is the one I now use, and it is excellent. You can print the pages off if you need something signed, and even send off the pdf to be made into a proper bound logbook if you needed it for an interview or something.
Just to actually answer your question, you log from the time the aircraft starts moving under its own power with the intention of taking off, until the time the aircraft stops after landing. No more, no less, so no pre-flight briefs or tie downs. Once you start learning your instructor will help you out, and show you what needs to be done.
MCC pilot log is the one I now use, and it is excellent. You can print the pages off if you need something signed, and even send off the pdf to be made into a proper bound logbook if you needed it for an interview or something.
Just to actually answer your question, you log from the time the aircraft starts moving under its own power with the intention of taking off, until the time the aircraft stops after landing. No more, no less, so no pre-flight briefs or tie downs. Once you start learning your instructor will help you out, and show you what needs to be done.
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I would endorse everything that has been said in previous posts but something that cropped up when I was applying an Australia & NZ licence was that their authorities wanted to know things like total cross country hours etc. So, if I was starting again I would keep running totals of all activities eg X country, T/Os and Landings. This is much easier these days if you use and an electronic log-book as well as your paper one.
I agree.
I transferred my logbook to an electronic one that I wrote myself when I had about a thousand hours and it was a huge job. But answering questions like that then became vastly easier. So, of-course is maintaining a back up.
That said, I still keep my paper logbook up to date.
G
I transferred my logbook to an electronic one that I wrote myself when I had about a thousand hours and it was a huge job. But answering questions like that then became vastly easier. So, of-course is maintaining a back up.
That said, I still keep my paper logbook up to date.
G
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If you do get a logbook already, make sure it's the right one. There are subtle differences between the way the US FAA and the Europeans (JAR-FCL / EASA-FCL) wants things logged. So you have to get a logbook that is JAR-FCL / EASA-FCL compliant - just getting a generic one from a US pilot shop might be a waste of money.
Furthermore, what you need to log, formally, is the time "the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off" and the time "the aircraft comes to a final rest after landing". And, of course, the time difference between those. That last item then becomes part of the running total. (These times, by the way, are typically referred to as "off blocks" and "on blocks" - where "blocks" means the chocks that are laid against the wheels to prevent movement.)
That's what the rules say. However, for other purposes (aircraft logbooks) you also need to record engine start/engine stop, and takeoff/landing times. In practice people just write down two or four of those items, and extrapolate from there. Your instructor will tell you how things are done at your place. Me, I write down engine start/takeoff/landing/engine off during the flight. These go straight into the aircraft logbook, but I also use engine start/engine stop for my personal logbook. After all, the time difference between engine start and off blocks is normally less than a minute. And on return I might already shut the engine down while the aircraft is still rolling.
Then you have to log some particulars of the flight itself. Aircraft callsign and type, departure and destination airfield of course, but you also need to log:
- The type or category of aircraft. Which will most likely be "SEP" (Single Engine Piston) in your case. You need to be able to tally up this category separately for licence revalidation purposes, that's why you record it separately.
- Your operating capacity. Were you student with an instructor on board ("dual") or were you the Pilot In Command (PIC)? For some purposes only PIC time is counted, for other purposes only Dual time is counted. So you need to record this separately.
- Were you flying at night, or flying under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)? Again, some purposes require that you are able to tally up these separately.
- The number of take-offs and landings, and whether these were done in daylight or at night.
Furthermore, what you need to log, formally, is the time "the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off" and the time "the aircraft comes to a final rest after landing". And, of course, the time difference between those. That last item then becomes part of the running total. (These times, by the way, are typically referred to as "off blocks" and "on blocks" - where "blocks" means the chocks that are laid against the wheels to prevent movement.)
That's what the rules say. However, for other purposes (aircraft logbooks) you also need to record engine start/engine stop, and takeoff/landing times. In practice people just write down two or four of those items, and extrapolate from there. Your instructor will tell you how things are done at your place. Me, I write down engine start/takeoff/landing/engine off during the flight. These go straight into the aircraft logbook, but I also use engine start/engine stop for my personal logbook. After all, the time difference between engine start and off blocks is normally less than a minute. And on return I might already shut the engine down while the aircraft is still rolling.
Then you have to log some particulars of the flight itself. Aircraft callsign and type, departure and destination airfield of course, but you also need to log:
- The type or category of aircraft. Which will most likely be "SEP" (Single Engine Piston) in your case. You need to be able to tally up this category separately for licence revalidation purposes, that's why you record it separately.
- Your operating capacity. Were you student with an instructor on board ("dual") or were you the Pilot In Command (PIC)? For some purposes only PIC time is counted, for other purposes only Dual time is counted. So you need to record this separately.
- Were you flying at night, or flying under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)? Again, some purposes require that you are able to tally up these separately.
- The number of take-offs and landings, and whether these were done in daylight or at night.
Last edited by BackPacker; 28th Jun 2013 at 11:50.
The USA uses the same "blocks" based definition for flight time as Europe (although the UK military, at-least, uses a different definition - they use take-off to landing).
Another advantage of using an electronic logbook is that you can have it adapt for multiple regimes. So, for example I hold both EASA and FAA licences, and some things are totalled differently or different pieces of information are needed (e.g. FAA care about cross-country time and have a formal definition for it, whilst EASA now want time IFR; alternately if I, say, fly an X'Air - to the Americans that's an aeroplane, whilst to the Europeans that's a microlight and not included in certain totals columns). When I wrote my Excel based logbook, I set it up to provide separate totals for EASA and FAA logging purposes.
As a paper logbook, I've been using a Pooleys (Airtour when I bought it!) standard commercial logbook, which neither the UK/European, nor American powers that be have ever had any problems with.
G
Another advantage of using an electronic logbook is that you can have it adapt for multiple regimes. So, for example I hold both EASA and FAA licences, and some things are totalled differently or different pieces of information are needed (e.g. FAA care about cross-country time and have a formal definition for it, whilst EASA now want time IFR; alternately if I, say, fly an X'Air - to the Americans that's an aeroplane, whilst to the Europeans that's a microlight and not included in certain totals columns). When I wrote my Excel based logbook, I set it up to provide separate totals for EASA and FAA logging purposes.
As a paper logbook, I've been using a Pooleys (Airtour when I bought it!) standard commercial logbook, which neither the UK/European, nor American powers that be have ever had any problems with.
G
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In addition to the Pooleys paper log book .
I use the online logbook found on UKGA
Allows me to backup to excel and nice map view of where you have been
UKGA home
I use the online logbook found on UKGA
Allows me to backup to excel and nice map view of where you have been
UKGA home
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Guys thanks for all the replies great info.
Backpacker/Genghis I was thinking of this logbook?-
Pooleys PPL Logbook
Thanks for all other replies really helpful info
Backpacker/Genghis I was thinking of this logbook?-
Pooleys PPL Logbook
Thanks for all other replies really helpful info
Thread Starter
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Backpacker,
OK thanks for that I think I'll go for it,
My school doesn't have that unfortunately as I've already had a trial flight
Thanks for all your help.
Gulf57
OK thanks for that I think I'll go for it,
My school doesn't have that unfortunately as I've already had a trial flight
Thanks for all your help.
Gulf57
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If you do get a logbook already, make sure it's the right one. There are subtle differences between the way the US FAA and the Europeans (JAR-FCL / EASA-FCL) wants things logged. So you have to get a logbook that is JAR-FCL / EASA-FCL compliant - just getting a generic one from a US pilot shop might be a waste of money.
Guys thanks for all the replies great info.
Backpacker/Genghis I was thinking of this logbook?-
Pooleys PPL Logbook
Thanks for all other replies really helpful info
Backpacker/Genghis I was thinking of this logbook?-
Pooleys PPL Logbook
Thanks for all other replies really helpful info
If you are likely to stay a single engine PPL for all/most of your flying career - then that little Pooleys logbook is great.
G
It's YOUR personal logbook - so long as you meet the minimum legal requirements, it really doesn't matter if you use an FAA logbook in EASAland, or vice-versa, an old school exercise book, an old RAF logbook, or (like me) use a 25 year old logbook and the regulations have changed several times since, or whether you log in decimal time, to the nearest 5 minutes, or the nearest minute. The authorities really do have more important things to worry about.
My preferences work for me and have never upset the authorities. Other people do it differently, which works for them, and also has never upset the authorities.
The legal minima, most places are:-
Date
Aircraft registration and type
Block-to-block time
Captain's name
Holder's capacity on board
Departure and arrival aerodromes
Exercise(s) flown.
Time night / IMC / IFR
Details of any tests and the outcomes.
In practice most people at the very least also include take-off and landing times, co-pilot or (more commonly in PPLing) passenger name(s), aircraft class, and the odd note about other aspects of the flight. Pretty much any commercially available logbook will do all of that, and there's nothing to stop you making up your own if you prefer.
G
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I use an AFE logbook and simply copied the layouts onto an excel spreadsheet. Keep both up to date.
And while we are on the subject of logbooks, whats the 'any other flying' section for?
Dan
And while we are on the subject of logbooks, whats the 'any other flying' section for?
Dan
Last edited by F4TCT; 30th Jun 2013 at 14:34.
When logging hours does your instructor have to sign each entry?
AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of flight time
instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction, instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;
instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction, instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;
- Time instructing (if you are an instructor of-course)
- Tailwheel time (if that happens to matter to you)
- Microlight time (if you have a licence combination where you need to keep these separeate)
- Passenger time (perfectly legitimate so keep a record of so long as you don't include it in any licencing totals).
Ultimately every pilot's logbook is their personal logbook and so long as legal minima are met and nothing gets added into licencing requirements that shouldn't be, they have every right to personalise it to their own style of flying and interests. And most of us do.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 1st Jul 2013 at 09:11.